Justin Stellman | Mitolife Radio Ep #181

talking, ascorbic acid, morley, day, copper, years, supplements, iron, vitamin, good, book, feel, people, started, health, put, bergstrom, protocol, vitamin d, funny

Matthew Blackburn 00:19
You're listening to Episode 181 of Mito Life Radio. I am Matt Blackburn, your host and today, I'm interviewing Justin Stellman of Extreme Health Radio. So this man had a huge influence on my life and my health journey. I started listening to his podcast that he hosts with his wife, Kate, several years ago, I was driving a lot for my work and so I would just listen to various health podcasts all day long. And theirs was definitely my favorite. And I think one of the main reasons why they were my favorite is I could tell that they actually had their hearts in it, they were passionate about it, they weren't just looking to cash in on trends, or just go through the motions to become the most popular health podcast or whatever. Their focus was truly to help people and in their voice, and just the energy of their show, I could tell that they actually cared. And their focus was not to gain power and popularity and clicks. But it was just to put out really helpful and new information, connecting new dots that haven't been connected before. And I noticed how they've had on so many different guests over the years, with so many different points of view. And what's really cool about that is that you're able to take a little bit from everybody, and create your own lifestyle or protocol, or health routine that works for you. And if actually, if it wasn't for Justin getting on me to start this podcast, it never would have happened. So he kept encouraging me, message after message that I should make my own podcast. And I thought everyone has a podcast. We don't need another one. I was on that train of thought. And he snapped me out of that and encouraged me to just get started. And here we are over 180 episodes in and I'm having so much fun with it and learning so much. Reading books and listening to lectures and podcasts is fun for me. And I'm more of an auditory learner so I do better with listening to someone than reading. But I've noticed that my favorite way to learn is to ask questions to guests that I have on my podcast, and take notes. And usually every show that I record, I have at least one or two actionable things that I could try out. That is really exciting and fun for me to experiment with something new. Especially if I interview Atom Bergstrom, who is a guest that I learned about from Justin and Kate, who's become a regular same thing with Morley Robbins. They've introduced me to so many people that have changed my life, mentors and friends. And I'm just so grateful to know them and call them my friend. So I'll stop rambling. This show is way overdue. I've been on Justin show several times, and this is his first time on mine. And I know you guys will enjoy it. So here is Justin Stellman. All right, Justin Stellman. Welcome to the show.

Justin Stellman 04:10
Dude, I'm so pumped to be here. Thanks, man for having me. I appreciate it.

Matthew Blackburn 04:14
Yeah, I was telling you before I hit record that this is way overdue. We've been talking about getting you on the show and you've been gracious enough to have me on your show, I think three times. And I just loved your curious mind and I remember listening to you and Kate before I started building a quote unquote, following on social media, and think I was delivering cannabis or something and driving around, and just play your podcasts. And I loved the information and I could just tell that you guys had the same kind of perspective about natural health, of just always experimenting and connecting more dots and not just getting comfortable with how things are. So it's really cool.

Justin Stellman 04:58
Yeah, yeah. Super pumped, because as you know, like the world of natural health, if you stay sort of stuck in a worldview or paradigm for a long period of time, it just I was just telling you before, it just gets boring, right? It's the same old information over and over again. And that's why I was telling you like, you inspired me to start looking further and deeper and Atom Bergstrom, from when he was on our show the same thing. And when you start looking and going deeper and deeper, like the world starts opening up to you, and you start feeling just greater sense of energy. And I don't know what it is, it's like, you know, for me, like I saw your posts today, where you said full circle on the iodine, you know, and a few years ago, you were talking, you know, talking trash on it, but it's just, it's just cool to always question your beliefs, you know, and always say, like, you know, am I right about this vitamin D stuff? You know, am I right? And really question everything. And I think that's - as long as you do that, you're gonna have a curious mind. And you know, it's gonna be fun.

Matthew Blackburn 05:57
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. My sunlight post was funny, yesterday, because a bunch of people, you know, they go to extremes when you question something, they take it to the extreme and say, "Oh, you must hate the sun." You know, "You must think it always causes cancer." It's like, No, I didn't say that. Yeah, it's, I think that's how the internet is, right? It's like these extreme camps that form.

Justin Stellman 06:24
Yeah, it's wild, because you told me that you lost quite a few followers. And I'm just like, I see like, nothing you say on Instagram triggers me in the least because, like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what what anyone says, I don't get triggered, really, because I just don't let things affect me. You know, and like, it blows my mind. Like, I don't even know what you posted about the sun but the fact that people could unfollow you from that was just like mind bending, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 06:49
Well, I know, you've had Jack Kruse on the show multiple times. And I, I used to be like, you know, student of his and, you know, there's this kind of idea, the more sun the better. It's like, you know, the source of healing. And I think there's something to the healing aspect, but I was just saying you can overdo it, and just saying that opened up a whole can of worms.

Justin Stellman 07:14
Well, too, I think it's really interesting, too, because, like you talk about a lot is context, you know, and, you know, is this son good for us now versus, you know, 100 years ago, like, you know, 100 years ago, we weren't consuming all of these just massive amounts of polyunsaturated fatty acids that are oxidizing on our skin, or we weren't exposed to the iron fortification program, you know, like, all these things were introduced to us within the last 100 years. And so, you know, the sun to someone 100 years ago was probably a lot better, you know, than it is now because of all the toxicities you know.

Matthew Blackburn 07:47
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. So I wanted to talk about your backstory a little bit and how you you got into all this? Was it with your mom being diagnosed with cancer? I think, was that how you got your start in natural health?

Justin Stellman 08:03
Yeah, so in 95, I was like, 20 - 21 years old, and my mom was diagnosed with cancer, and she was in her mid 50's at the time, and it just kind of caught all of us off guard, you know, and, and so I went to all of the oncology appointments, and she had gone down a couple of different rabbit trails, because my parents are both open minded, and I think yours are too. And so she went to the Gerson she checked out Gerson in Mexico, this is like mid 90's. Right. And so she checked out Gerson, and then she - her and I went to a macrobiotic center in San Diego somewhere. But ultimately, I think her doctors scared her into getting chemotherapy and radiation, you know, and doing the whole thing. And so at the time, it was really weird, like, I never thought that she was going to die from it. But the doctors gave her like a 10% chance of survival. It was pretty wild. But she went into like multiple instances in the hospital at the City of Hope, where she would go in for like six months at a time, like three months, six months times where she was in like those those bubbles, you know, where you couldn't even touch her. And I watched her go through chemotherapy, radiation, bone marrow transplant where I donated platelets, because I was the only match for her. All that stuff, surgery and I just, I watched her just go from a vibrant, mid 50s woman to someone that looked like in their in their 80's, you know, like in a matter of six months. And so one of the oncology appointments at this time, I knew nothing, right. I'm 20 years old, whatever, I didn't know anything. And I asked the doctor, I said, "How come like so many people are getting cancer?" you know, and he's like, he kind of looked at me and you know, how you you could just tell when someone doesn't know what they're talking about, you know, but this is like his wheelhouse, right? Like, he should know this. And he's like, Well, I think it's just because you know, we had better testing or something. I just knew that he wasn't - like he didn't know what he was talking about. And so I watched my mom just go through this. And it was just insane. So since then she's had, I think a couple heart attacks, a lung cancer, another skin cancer, and just a bunch of stuff. And the chemo has just ravaged her body like, oh my gosh. And so I knew that something was wrong. I knew people were being diagnosed with this. It was like the plague of our time. And I knew that something was just really off, the doctors didn't know what they're talking about. And, but something within me was like, there has to be a better way to heal from this, you know. And so that was in 95 and then I just kept working, she got better. She ultimately, you know, she's still living. She's 82 years old. And she got better, she recovered, and life kind of went on. And then I saved up I took a surf trip around the world for like a year. I just went traveling surfing all over the world. And then I came back and a friend of mine gave me a book called Fit for Life. Do you remember that guy? Harvey Diamond, I think. And he talked about cleansing and detox and food combining, you've probably read it. And, and so at the time I read that book, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, like, people can prevent cancer. People can heal from cancer, like without chemo, and then I just thought okay, then why are they doing chemo then?" And I tried to tell the doctors and they wanted nothing to do with it. And then I started thinking like, "Wait a second, is everything like, are they trying to prevent? Like, what's going on here?" You know, and, and so that opened up a world where I got into raw food and so in 2003 from 2003 to 2010 I became a raw food vegan for seven years like 100% And that was a wild ride dude that - I feel like I'm still recovering from that.

Matthew Blackburn 11:56
It's crazy. Yeah, we've had such a similar path because I feel like when you learn about these diseases, it's like you learn about alkaline water in fasting and raw foods. But then you get into mineral balancing and all this deeper stuff like, like you were the one that introduced me to Morley Robbins work and you just keep going down deeper and deeper rabbit holes to kind of get more to the root right of the of the issue because back then, did you think alkaline water and enzymes and I mean enzymes, it's a different story, enzyme therapy, but alkaline water and raw foods, juicing, did you think that was the one of the big-

Justin Stellman 12:35
Dude, I thought - yeah, cuz I got into raw food from a really popular guy at the time, you know who he is. But then I, you know, I got introduced first to Jay Kordich the juice man who I think he healed himself of, what is it a kidney, kidney cancer, I think or bladder cancer. And he was the juice man, you know, the guy on, you know, with the thick eyebrows and all that. But, yeah, so I bought into the whole thing, you know, the enzymes and the veganism and the whole nine yards. But, you know, to me, that was a such a transformative time. And it just sent me on this rabbit trail of exploration. And then I was like, wait a minute, there's a group of people that don't think the alkaline water is good, or, you know, wait a second, there's carnivores who completely disagree with the raw food vegans, you know, like, and so then it just kind of opens up all these rabbit trails. You know, just last night, I was listening to, you know, a neurosurgeon, not the one that we think, you know, the major one, but another neurosurgeon out of Australia, talking about the carnivore diet. And so, you know, I don't subscribe to it and I'm not into it. But I love learning and seeing what people have to say. And I think that you're the same, you know, you'd like exploring and going down rabbit trails and seeing what's what's interesting in what works in quest - constantly questioning your beliefs. And, you know, we replay our old shows, you know, six days a week, and the new shows come on Sunday. And sometimes I cringe I've told you like, the amount that I knew and the way I was so long ago, I cringe at those episodes, but whatever, it's fine, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 12:41
I think they're great. I love your old shows. How many have you guys recorded now you and Kate like, is it close to 1000? Or?

Justin Stellman 14:25
Yeah, we're on seven. I don't know what it is 730 or 740? Something like that. And so it's it's been -- It's been super fun. You know, I really enjoy it.

Matthew Blackburn 14:37
Yeah, yeah. I think you just reposted your one with Andrew Saul, and I've been looking into the whole vitamin C thing. And it's so interesting, I think Jason Hommel that we had on our our shows. He kind of introduced me to the ascorbic acid research and I think Abram Hoffer was the guy he referenced, I started listening to him and he was big into Niacinin therapy for Schizophrenia. And it's yeah, I've been going down a lot of rabbit holes that I didn't think I would go down, you know? Because it counters what I learned from Ray Peat or whatever, the last couple years.

Justin Stellman 15:18
So here's - here's something like with Morley, you know, I'm sort of rereading parts of his book right now. And, you know, when he talks about things that are like copper dependent, or things like that, you know, I often wonder, you know, in Jason's work, he talks about, you know, multiple sort of factors that cause enzymes to function, or hormones to turn on or to take different, you know, sort of biological pathways. And when Morley mentioned stuff like, you know, substance, such as copper dependent cytochrome c oxidase or something, you know, like, I asked myself, well, how dependent like, what does that actually mean, when it comes down to the, to the molecule itself, like, you know, is copper responsible for 10%? And so you can say it's copper dependent, but you know, how dependent and how, you know, are there other mechanisms at play. And I think that's what Jason's kind of getting, you know - showing ascorbic acid has other methods. And so when Morley talks about like, how, you know, ascorbic acid causes ceruloplasmin to fold incorrectly, you know, and leach out copper, you know, how much copper you know, is it leaching out? And how often does that happen? And, you know, are there other forms of ascorbic acid that don't do that. And so there's a lot of nuances, so I'm excited to take Morley's course, you know, coming up here. But I think there's even more nuance than Morley even talks about, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 16:45
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's a beautiful thing. I like that Morley is not militant, you know, because I've had falling outs with previous, you know, teachers in the past, because they're just so my way is the highway. And I think Morley has a little bit of that, but he's so open minded. And he likes, I think when I challenge him, and you make a good point there with what percent like, DAO enzyme, I think a lot of people in the pro metabolic community have been talking about that for the last, I don't know, year. And you know how that deactivates histamine, and that helps with allergies, and just people getting that information out there. But I used to believe it was all copper, like you said, but it's also zinc and vitamin C. So like that DAO enzyme, it does require copper, but also zinc and vitamin C. So it's like, what percentage of each you know, there's so much to to uncover there.

Justin Stellman 17:42
Yeah, so like, you know, Morley's thing with zinc is that it does the same thing as ascorbic acid, according to him, right. And I've looked at some of the research on that, and it does appear that it causes ceruloplasmin to leak copper. Right. But you know, is the ceruloplasmin that it's causing, like, is it causing, potentially weaken ceruloplasmin or ceruloplasmin is not expressed properly? Is it causing that copper to leak, or that ceruloplasmin protein to leak copper versus fully strengthen and energize ceruloplasmin? So, you know, I think that there's a lot more nuance, and I think there's a real problem when it comes to, you know, I get questions all the time. And I know you do too. And it drives a tries me crazy, it's like, "Oh, you know, Morley said don't take don't take ascorbic acid" right, you know? But then I had Dr. Hunninghake on my show, who's reversing cancers with IV ascorbic acid? Right? So I don't know how you explain that, like, okay, so the way I've always looked at it is, there's like, there's a time for medicine and there's a time for like nuance of what you do on a daily basis, right? And so, if you're gonna follow Ray Peat and Morley and Dr. Jack Kruse and just put your head in the sand and just go full in, full bore on what they say, you know, that's great, but there's got to be room for context, you know, and I've always said that, like, if I had some extra cells growing, I would probably get ascorbic acid, vitamin C. Kate just did that last, like six months ago and you know got an IV ascorbic acid and I, you know, if it destroys ceruloplasmin, if it really does, you know, does the Doris Loh says that it doesn't, but if it does, then, you know -

Matthew Blackburn 19:29
I was going to ask if you've -

Justin Stellman 19:31
Yeah, yeah, she-

Matthew Blackburn 19:33
Sorry I was gonna ask if he listed her work.

Justin Stellman 19:35
Yeah, yeah. No, she's great. But the way I just look at it is like, you know, what, if, if you're gonna go down and get some ascorbic acid to - to potentially get rid of some cancer cells or to get over a flu or sickness, dude, you can always just boost up your copper later, you know, no big deal. It's like no big deal, right? But people get so stuck in these camps. It's funny.

Matthew Blackburn 20:02
Absolutely, yeah. Or I think of like, like superfood supplement companies like that sell a lot of liposomal products like that - maybe they sell liposomal vitamin C, and then a zinc supplement that has like, you know, 18:1 zinc to copper ratio. And they're like promoting that lifestyle. And it's like, tons of zinc, tons of vitamin D, barely any copper. I think that's a mistake, too. And that's, that's like, most of the alternative health community, right? That's their message, it's like, "Watch out, don't get too much copper. But make sure you get enough vitamin C and zinc." It's like, well, isn't copper just as important?

Justin Stellman 20:43
Yeah, dude, it's insane because like Jason mentioned, I think on your show with him, I - all the shows bleed together, maybe it was on ours. But he was saying that, like, you know, if you're gonna do the zinc and ascorbic acid, you better make sure you're doing the copper, because, you know, they, they're seesaws, you know, and so, but like you mentioned, all the people that are promoting ascorbic acid and zinc don't even understand ceruloplasmin or copper biology at all. And so, I think that's an issue. But you know, like, I always say, like, if someone is attracted to some way of eating, then they should just do that and believe in it. And then if they start feeling symptoms, then they can just change. But to get into these arguments, and to get, you know, I'm a doctor Kruse guy, like I love the one recently with I don't know if you know, Matt, but did you know that the vitamin D debate is now over? Did you know that?

Matthew Blackburn 21:38
I saw the announcement.

Justin Stellman 21:41
It's hilarious. Yeah. It's now officially over. So none of us can talk about it. So. But it's just funny, like

Matthew Blackburn 21:48
That whole - yeah go ahead.

Justin Stellman 21:52
No, no, no, it's just funny to many people in camps, I think, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 21:57
Absolutely. Yeah and getting emotional about these things. Like I don't, I don't care, I think like you if someone wants to supplement 50,000 IU vitamin D or even 5000 a day, right? But there are people trying to like lock in, like this is the truth for everybody. And what's funny with the whole like, Danny Roddy thing I think he's a good guy, you know, he's a big Ray Peat acolyte. And what's interesting is like his perspective, is that now that I'm promoting cod liver oil, just Rosita not anything else, not Carlson or anything else, just Rosita, like Morley, that just because it contains d3 and promoting D3 supplementation. But what's funny is that's like saying, I just got back into chocolate thanks to Atom Bergstrom. This is - he kind of influenced me to up my chocolate. Just listening to him talk about longevity, I think on your show, and you know, D3 is an ingredient in chocolate you there's vitamin D and - so like, by eating chocolate, and by supplementing vitamin D, is it the same thing? I don't think so. And so I don't think it applies to the Rosita cod liver oil, you know, I'm still anti taking the extract of D3 by itself.

Justin Stellman 23:14
Yeah, and I think that at least when the cod liver oil, it's, it's naturally synthesized, it's not something that's put there in some lipid matrix, you know, that's isolated by itself. And it's not even the D3, like if you could snap your fingers and remove the polyunsaturated fatty acids, possibly, and the D3 from that supplement, you probably would, because of the insane amount of retinol in that, you know, and so that's what you're really after. And so, you know, sometimes you need a little bit of poison with your medicine. And so, you know, if you have to deal with the effects of the vitamin D, then so be it. But, I mean, I just think that people that are in these camps, I mean, it's kind of fun to watch, I kind of just sit on the outskirts and just kind of, you know, I - you know, I read the thread and like, on that post and this like, I'm not sure if they've reached out to you to Matt, you know, for a debate or whatever. And I just think man, like I don't know, I just think right now, you know, in the state of the world, the way things are, you know, like your spare time you're researching and you're building your homestead you know, like I think that that kind of stuff is way more important than fighting with alternative health influencers about vitamin D to me it just it's just kind of funny, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 24:34
I completely - yeah, I've had my hands full with the homestead for sure. And yeah, it all comes down to battling with studies. That's what these debates are. And you know, all the health influencers do it. The big ones on Instagram, they just fight by making studies posts. You know, this guy's stupid because he said this and here's this study that refutes what he's saying. And it's like, studies are really fascinating, but I think we should go a lot by experience, right? Like, especially our personal experience. And a lot of the time, my personal experience has been like the polar opposite of what is shared in the health community. And, and my observations, you know, like I say, I spoke to that guy on the phone about the high dose D for COVID. And he landed himself in the hospital with heart palpitations. And I said, "Man, you created a magnesium deficiency, and a potassium deficiency, and probably copper and some other things. But I'd say like, definitely focus on magnesium, because it sounds like you just tanked your magnesium from the D, and then you got heart palpitations." What was this guy taking? 50,000? He - he got IV injected vitamin D3, or hormone D as we like to call it. There's a more accurate name. And I think he was taking oral as well. So you know, it's like the COVID cocktail, right? It's like they're just saying ascorbic acid, what vitamin D and zinc. Which could work, maybe if the copper is coming in, I don't know, it's just imbalanced to only have those three, especially the vitamin D, which I don't think is necessary, but - but yeah, there's just so much - like what Jason's protocol, what's been interesting to me is like, if you take this, you have to take this. And if you take this, you have to take this and you just keep going down the line where next thing you know, you have 10 supplements that you need to take to balance each other. I think that's why people stick with Whole Foods Supplements, because it's a lot simpler, but that the question is, are the nutrients actually in the whole foods?

Justin Stellman 26:47
Yeah, well, I know that you mentioned that guy, what's the guy that works with morally he's got the farm in Texas who did the liver biopsies of his cattle that showed, I think it was a very low or very negligible amounts of copper in the beef liver. And so that could be just his cows, or it could be all cows, or, but you're right, you know, Whole Foods Supplements are ideal, if you can guarantee the substances are full of the of what you think there - what's in there, you know, and so, you know, I think that like, you know, you were talking about your vitamin C product. And, you know, I personally, the way I look at it is like, I look at ascorbic acid as something that you would do intermittently on and off. And if you were in a catastrophic situation, or if you want to just really take things to the next level. But I look at your Whole Foods C as like a foundation, you know, and then having ascorbic acid come in on top of that, I think could be extremely helpful. But I'm not averse to really changing my mind about stuff and I liked that post he did the other day, about the - I think it was ascorbic acid, where you're like, you know, if I find evidence of one of my best selling products, I'll just stop selling it because I don't want to put something out there that hurts people. And I know you've had experience with people who do do that, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 28:14
Or that's not as effective as something else. Yeah, I, I really questioned like liposomal ascorbic acid, that's a rabbit hole I've been delving into really deeply last month - if that's, if that even matters, Doris Loh says it doesn't. She says just plain old pharmaceutical grade ascorbic acid. When you take it, yeah, your gut bacteria will uptake it because it loves that stuff. But it'll also - it'll make it into your system. Whereas with liposomal just bypasses the gut, that's the only benefit. But then you're not feeling that gut bacteria, the asorbic acid which they use, so it's interesting.

Justin Stellman 28:49
So what's interesting to me about that is, you know how the ascorbic acid molecule, the ascorbic acid is the outer shell, and then on the inside, there's tyrosinase, there's J,P, and K factors, there's bioflavonoids, and that's another rabbit trail. And there's all these constituents inside that molecule and the research that I was reading a few months ago was talking about how like, if you isolate the AA on the outer shell and just take that, the components inside are like a family unit, they're tightly bound together. And they want to be together and so they will seek out that in your body and deplete your body of that so that they could remain together. And I haven't looked at Doris Loh is looking around for some of her research on that, and I didn't find anything but I don't know. Have you seen any evidence of that?

Matthew Blackburn 29:40
I'll send you something. Yeah, I think I have like a forum post saved by her where she specifically addresses that Whole Food c thing because she basically says that the evidence is lacking for a Whole Food vitamin C molecule that it only comes from that little infographic picture and that one blog post. In that there's just not a lot of solid fat. Like she said, basically all the research, they're using ascorbic acid and that's what grass makes and plants make and animals make, they actually make the ascorbic acid molecule, they don't make Whole Foods C. So it's interesting. I mean, my current perspective on it is that, I don't know if the bioflavonoids and the other stuff matters, but it definitely has an effect on copper. And so I would say just my perspective, as long as copper is coming in, then you're pretty safe. And I don't know I think about I was raised in chlorinated pools like I did the YMCA, I snuck into pools with my friends and jacuzzis, which are pools on steroids to steam and you're inhaling chlorine. And I grew up with acne and eczema and skin issues and rashes, and I would always get itchy, or I just, I would just itch all night after I went to the jacuzzi with my friends. And since learning that, you know, that chlorine depletes vitamin C, I wonder if I was deficient vitamin C, my whole life with that intense chlorine exposure, not to mention showering, you know, for half my life before I discovered shower filters.

Justin Stellman 31:11
Yeah, it's amazing that we made it you know, like the diet that I grew up eating, and you, you - it's just insane that we, that we made, it was probably because we didn't get the, you know, any pokey things as much as they are now you know, but I grew up on all that stuff, dude, like the Pop Tarts, you know, the cereals, you know, fortified with iron, it's, the human body is amazing. And one of the things I constantly tell our people is that like, you know, if you're going into some new eating style, and you're looking to experiment, I think that's a good thing. And I really do think like, we have these invisible processes that happen inside of our body all the time that are driving biological functions. And maybe for some people, that could be the growth of some extra cells, you know, and, you know, it's my understanding that we have like three to four major bouts of cancer in our life, the average human, but we get through it because our immune system gets on top of it. And we never even know we have it. But if you were to get diagnosed at that time, you would be put in the chemotherapy, you know, kind of going back to my mom's story, you'd be kind of put in that whole system once again. And so our bodies just gets on top of these things and I really do feel like if we're in tune with, like, what our systems want, rather than following Ray Peat, or following Jack Kruse or Morley Robbins, or following any kind of one person, if we're really in tune with who we are, we're going to gravitate to the thing that's going to heal us you know, and whether we know we have something that needs to be healed or not, but the problem is like these biohackers drive me nuts because they're just looking at every like, oh my blood sugar's this you know, my fasting blood sugar and my you know, my hemoglobin and all this stuff. And it's like, I like how you are with just the intuitive nature of it and experimenting on yourself because really getting rid of all the studies and all the health influencers, you know and stop listenening to them and just try some ascorbic acid, try some copper, see if you like it and if you're drawn to something maybe that something will actually end up healing you and you won't even know that the healing is occurring. You know?

Matthew Blackburn 33:21
That's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you can just get lost and confused, the more you look at studies and listen to different influencers, because the studies and the influencers are saying completely opposite things, right, you could find, you know, information to support whatever beliefs you want. I want to ask you, Justin about what you and Kate are doing over there with homesteading since you brought that up, because I think, to me, that's like the ultimate security. Like, I don't know, if the internet is going to be around, you know, my entire life or the supplement industry is going to be here my entire life. And so, I'm just like, creating a - you know, growing food, you know, plant, plant and animal food, I think is, is really the goal. And you guys have it raised beds there and chickens.

Justin Stellman 34:14
Yeah, so we're kind of going down the same - we're trying to do what we can with what we have. And so we have, I think seven chickens and we're gonna get, I think three or four more. And we just live in Southern California and we have, you know, a couple backyards, you know, that we're kind of putting together so we have about, I think 10 fruit trees, we're going to get six more. And we've got - so we're going to get 10 chickens. The goal would be to get a goat like you have, to get a goat and to get the chickens. I would love to have like, like maybe a like a pond to do fish, you know, and I would love to, you know, grow coconuts and bananas and stuff like that too. But, yeah, I think that the way the direction is going, it's like the writing's on the wall. What if you - if you're following what's going on in the world right now the supply chains are, are crumbling. And I think it's really important, really important, like more than ever, to start growing some of your own food, whether that sprouts, you know, in your kitchen, or just grow something. So for the past, when this whole thing happened, I won't even say the word. But when this whole thing happened, my parents were going to go on, on a trip to Europe, like, like the day after Governor Newsom shut everything down, right. And I just knew, being in the alternative health field for so long, I knew right away, this is the first thing that I knew from day one, that this whole thing was engineered and it's I don't know if it's real or not, but man, all the all the lock downs and stuff like that, that's definitely real. And I just knew that something was wrong on day one. And I remember telling my parents that, and since then, we've been buying extra food, you know, like a little bit each, each time we go, you know, we'll buy some oysters, or buy some extra meats, or whatever the case may be. And we've been doing that for two years. And we just bought a Harvest Right, Freeze Dryer, I don't know if you've seen those things, man. Dude... those things are awesome. They essentially freeze dry your food. And they keep I think 96% of the nutrition for 30 years. That's amazing. So we bought one of those. And we're going to be just going hog wild here soon on freeze drying meat and milk and stuff like that. Because I don't think the average person knows has any idea what's what's coming, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 36:42
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good suggestions. And I yeah, I think about that often and it's, it's intimidating, because even my setup, I think some people might look at what I'm doing here of being fully off grid, and they're like, oh, wow, he's completely prepared. And no, I would, if I had to put a percentage on it, I'm probably like, 5% prepared, even when you're like, fully off grid, and you're surrounded by wild game like deer. And, you know, there's so much like, up here, I mean, if I run out of propane, diesel and gasoline, I can't use any of my machines, which means I'm snowed in for half the year, I can't clear all that by hand. So there's a lot of considerations and it's contextual, you know, based on where you live. But there's, there's a million things to consider with what you call, you know, prepping. I know, you've looked into and you can only prepare so much, which is kind of the scary part. Like, I mean, the practical thing I often think of is like stockpiling honey, because that, you know, they found that in Egyptian tombs, right. So like, I like the idea of getting like 1000's of pounds of honey and storing that, you know, because you could just live on that as your carb source for a while.

Justin Stellman 37:59
Yeah, I remember what you posted on that, like, you posted those big, what are those big? Like, I don't know, what are they like 60 gallons of honey or something like that? Have all your buckets of it? And you said something like, you can't eat your Bitcoin, you know? And so right after that, yeah, we should buy some honey. So we went bought a few buckets of that stuff. And, you know, that will last forever, you know, and I just think that, you know, we've lost the the ancient ways, you know, as Daniel Vitalis says, like, we've lost the, the art of of living, like our ancestors did, you know, and, you know, get - being able to defend yourself being able to defend your property, being able to like, if the power went out, what would be the first thing you think about, you know, and whatever that is, you should go fix that. And that's probably for me going to be water, right? So I'm looking at doing like, some rainwater collection. If I had my way, dude, I would have a rainwater collection system, on which we're working on right now. But I would have a well, I would have a stream. I know, there's ways that yeah I've have been doing some research into some different ways that you can build your own device that makes water from the humidity in the air. And so I'm going to start, you know, building that and see if that works. But um, I just think that the more you're connected to the system and relying on them, the worse it's going to be for for anyone, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 39:26
Yeah and that's probably like 99% of people, right? I mean, especially the people on social media that are just going to the health food store or buying all their food at the health store and not thinking of like, you know, even getting chickens which I think like that's how I started was even when I was renting a cabin in Idlewild, California. I just got a chicken coop, you know, and no rooster just hens and I had a couple beehives which a black bear destroyed but just getting some bees and some chickens. That's like almost anyone could do that. I mean, even if they're renting, I guess the bees are tricky with neighbors.

Justin Stellman 40:08
Yeah, you know, starting somewhere, and you know, I've been wanting to do this for a long time. And it wasn't until this whole thing happened two years ago, that really kind of kicked my butt and start doing it, you know, because there's always excuses, right? There's, like, you know, working on things, and there's so many excuses. But the other day, Kate was telling me that her sister was telling her that she's like, I don't know how you handle chickens, you know, they just freak me out, you know? And it's like, spoken like a true city dweller, you know, like, oh my - you know, Kate and I were talking, we're like, dude, 200 years ago, if you were afraid to touch chickens, like you just didn't eat, maybe, you know, like, I don't know what happened to our culture, where we're afraid to do these things, I understand it's not fun to put your chickens down, or that kind of thing. But to just hold a chicken, like, we have come so far away from our roots, and how we're supposed to be living that we can't even, you know, fix things, we can't, you know, have access to anything. I mean, it's just, it's amazing how far we've come, you know, as far as dependency on the system?

Matthew Blackburn 41:17
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I moved up here a little over two years ago and I was so fortunate that my neighbors like MacGyver, like with, with tools and fixing stuff. And I grew up with a tech dad. So like, he was fixing my brother and I's, my older brother and I's computer, when it would break down a black screen of death, you know, he'd come in and do the code. And so I've just, I'm learning a lot about just how to use a wrench and like, you know, all these the driver and all these different things, socket wrench, and it's pretty important skills to have, especially as a man just learning how to build stuff and fix stuff. And that's been super cool.

Justin Stellman 42:01
Yeah, and I think the more that we can do that, the more self reliant, we become, you know, and I'm the same way I'm more savvy with computers and technology as well. But these are skills that we have to learn, you know, and if our dads didn't teach us, that's cool, you know, that wasn't his skill set. But, you know, at some point, we have to start learning how to do this stuff, and, and so I just feel like the system wants us broke, dependent, you know, depressed on their pharmaceuticals, you know, scared and worried and fearful all the time and just, you know, willing to take whatever it is that they want to offer us as a solution. And our job is to empower ourselves so that we know about options, you know, like, there's a lot of things that we know about, like I was just, I shared something on Instagram about, you know, bee venom therapy and breast cancer. And, you know, it's not something that I would probably do, but it's just, it's good to know that these things are on the table, and there's evidence for them and research behind them. So that when the doctor says something to you, or the media guy tells you that some new thing is out, you gotta be super worried. You can just be like, you know, what, I know, if I do get whatever it is, you say, I'm gonna get, I can do ultraviolet blood or radiation therapy, I could do ozone treatments, I could do coffee enemas, I could do rife frequencies, I could do the Bob Beck protocol, I could do all these things, right? Because the more knowledge you have, I feel like, the less you're able to be manipulated, because you don't have any fear. You know, and it's, you know, with this recent strike on YouTube, I just posted like, the only way they're going to win this is if they keep censoring us, you know, that's that's their only, you know, trick right now.

Matthew Blackburn 43:43
Yeah, but then you just get off their platforms right on to all these different ones that are being created, Bitchute or whatever. And you side - sidestep them, I'm sure I won't be on YouTube forever. That thing's totally censored. People don't think, but they take down documentaries left and right off YouTube.

Justin Stellman 44:02
Yeah, it's funny I watched in the sauna today, I watched a documentary about the world's fairs. And I was trying to - so the three links that I had for this documentary were all from YouTube. And I'd saved them maybe a couple of weeks ago, and I'm getting in my sauna today thinking, oh, I want to watch those. I want to go pop - there's three of them, all of them gone, you know, and there was just like about the world's fairs. Like, why would you get - take something like that down if it doesn't threaten the establishment, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 44:34
Yeah, it's wild. I wanted to say Justin, I love and I think this is what got me hooked on your guys's podcast years ago was I love the emphasis you guys put on protocols and devices because I feel like those get a lot of flak lately where people say they're expensive, they're unnecessary. All you need is nutrition. This is all just marketing. But the feeling I get after I do rectal ozone insufflation from Charles's machine crucial for is like, I can't recreate that with any supplement I've tried and it's nowhere close. And so some of these devices and treatments and protocols like the effects that you can get, you cannot get from any supplements or, or even just going outside and grounding or sunlight. It's just it's different. So I think just educating people on, you know, affordable tools, they don't have to be, you know, $30,000 or whatever for a hyperbaric chamber. But there's like levels that people like you were talking about what MMS before we started recording, which I never tried. My friends, David and Will like projectile vomited, they said when they first tried that years ago, maybe they just overdid it. I don't know.

Justin Stellman 45:50
Yeah, it's funny, you know, I was listening to Jim Humble about that and he was talking about how MMS is actually a weak, a very, very weak oxidizer, which I thought that was interesting. But you know, to me, MMS is something that you have like a band aid, you know, like you have it at home, and if things start getting really bad, or if you start getting super sick, you just have it on hand, it's not something that you do on a regular basis. But, you know, in an ideal world, I love what Josh Rubin says on your show, you know, and that is like food is the foundation, right? But in a world that is - that has our food supply, radically altered with vitamin D, you know, with iron with polyunsaturated fatty acids, and everything, canola oil, and all that stuff, you know, the food is, you know, can be toxic as well. And so I think that it's really important for people to sort of, I mean, honestly change their values. And I always tell people, like, bring these healing tools into your home, you know, like invest like a saunas 1200 bucks, you can get a, you know, three $4,000 one, if you want, you can get a rebounder you can get - I started off with a little cheap ones, and you can get, you know, they go up to 5, 6, 700 bucks, but just start bringing some of these things into your house. Because like I'll do if I feel like I'm getting sick, I'll do a bunch of rebounding for the three days because that doesn't tax my cardiovascular. And it helps flush my lymphatic system and it's something I could do if something happens. But having a Rife machine on hand having an ozone machine, I have one of those and having you know, I got that neck device, I think you got one of those two and you know, PMF device and you have all the tools to and that's how you overcame your your eye thing, you know, recently and I don't know, I just think those tools are valuable. And I'd rather have those tools in like a brand new car, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 47:47
Yeah, absolutely. Especially electric car.

Justin Stellman 47:50
Yeah, totally.

Matthew Blackburn 47:56
And use a DMS, DMS02, right? is it dimethylsulfoxide? Because I, when I was living in the RV, I used to mix that with my magnesium chloride. And I was like, selling under the table like spray, magnesium spray with DMSO in it. And that's the last time I used it. But you're kind of inspiring me to get back on it. Because you've been posting it's like multi-use, right? It's like a good for another good first aid thing to have.

Justin Stellman 48:22
Yeah, I was - I went back and listened to some old radio shows with Dr. Morton Walker, the author of the book, DMSO, Nature's Healer, I think. And looking at that book, and then looking at some of his work that he's put out. He referenced a guy by the name of Dr. Stanley Abrams, I think out of Oregon, and he was saying that - I just did a recent radio show on strokes just trying to, you know, because I get a lot of questions. And you do too, like they come to, like, they flood in all about one thing for a while. And I'm like, okay, I'll just do one on strokes. And this guy, Stanley Abrams was talking about how if you're able to do a DMSO IV, and I didn't even know that those things existed until maybe six months ago. But DMSO IV, you can reverse the damage of a stroke, but you have to do it within an hour of having the stroke. And I haven't had a chance to look into Stanley Abrams yet and his work on that but that to Morton Walker referenced. And I just think it's really important to just to have this knowledge because if you just don't have any of this knowledge and you just take what they give you I mean it's a - I don't know, it's not, it's not going to end up well.

Matthew Blackburn 49:34
Yeah, yeah, they get you in the system and then dependent on there are pharmaceuticals and it's just hard to - you can see when someone's on pharmaceuticals. You can see the fog in your in their eyes, and especially when it's a family member. It's just soul crushing because it's like a pretty tight mental prison that person's in.

Justin Stellman 49:54
So hey, I wanted to ask you about because Kate's mom just recently went on statin drugs. And she just got the sharp thing recently too. And I just - and so now, you know, she's been on statin drugs for, I think like three or four months now. And I remember doing some research into them and looking at all the side effects. And Kate will call her ask her how she is and she'll complain of every one of these side effects. But she doesn't - she'll never pin it to the statin drugs, you know? And I know you were saying with your mom -- she's kind of dealing with some stuff, too, right? And how is she doing?

Matthew Blackburn 50:31
She's doing really good. Yeah, years ago. It was a long time ago, I can't remember maybe more than a decade, she was just kind of couch ridden and really fatigued. And then she was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. And then they found like one of her heart valves was was leaking. And so they eventually put her on a pacemaker, gave her some more pharmaceuticals. And the pacemaker seemed to help but it's just challenging with what I'm into with PEMF and I got my lodestone bathtub, and all these really healing things that are like electromagnetic it's like, or even just magnetic. They really limit treatment options when someone has a pacemaker in, I mean, just like the Magnetico Sleep Pad, right, which can increase ATP production, you can't use that with a pacemaker. And so it's a really dark system that they've created, but at least she is open to getting the pacemaker taken out at some point. So I just keep kind of encouraging that, you know, cuz she's on the magnesium, she's on the K2, you know, from Mito Life and she's even making magnesium bicarbonate. But yeah, seems like I mean, for the heart, I always tell people, it's like magnesium K2 and vitamin E. I know copper plays a role as well. But if you wanted to simplify, it's like magnesium, vitamin K2, vitamin E. Those are like, super heart nutrients.

Justin Stellman 52:11
Yeah, yeah, that's cool. It's difficult when it's family members, right? Where like, they, you know, sometimes they ask you, and sometimes they don't. And going back kind of full circle, when I first started learning all this stuff, realizing that like, family doesn't care, like they don't want to know, sometimes they're just blocked of and I've stopped sort of helping people that don't want help, but if they're, if someone is open, I just like, oh, man, I just, I'll just throw up so much stuff and so much information in their face. But if they're not open, I feel like we all get to experience you know, whatever it is that we came here for, you know, and, you know, that age old saying, I think it's true, like the only disease is a closed mind, you know, and if you're willing to open your mind to alternative options, then you can heal from anything, you know, but as long as you buy into a diagnosis, or you think that pharmaceuticals are the only way, you know, it's that's not that good for you, so.

Matthew Blackburn 53:14
It's a good point. Yeah, I think it's a sign of maturity, that perspective that you have, because I know the first like three or four years that I was into health, you know, when I got into it in 2010, I was so aggressive with my family. And, and with people that I interacted with, it was like, you gotta go fruitarian you know, low fat or whatever I was into at the time. And now over a decade in if I, you know, like, I've been talking to a cashier at the health food store, and she said she's had anemia her whole life and, and a blood transfusion made her feel really good. And I was just like, "Okay, that's great. Here's my podcast with Morley though, if you want to listen to it, here it is." And I'm not gonna like say anything else. It's just, there's more to the iron story, that's probably the opposite of what you've learned and if you're interested, I'll write it down here. You know?

Justin Stellman 54:08
Yeah, it's funny, right? Because people that are just like, sort of defend their positions. We had someone like that in the, inside our academy a while back, they were telling me about their anemia, you know, and they went on and on and on. And finally, I said, "Well, you know, there's no such thing as iron deficient anemia, you know, most likely it's going to be a copper deficiency, and a lack of the associated enzymes that allows iron to be recycled through that whole RAS system." You know, and I could tell she was like, oh, what does all this mean? I don't understand. But my doctor said, I'm anemic and so I'm doing this and that and I'm like, Okay, well, if you - I can't help someone that just wants to identify with a label. You know, if you want to say you're anemic, then that's cool. Then you get to experience everything that anemia has to offer you, you know, I can't help you at that point. So this is funny.

Matthew Blackburn 55:01
It is yeah. Justin, I'm thinking we should get into some of these questions because I'm sure some of them will be fun = fun side discussions if you're, if you're up for it.

Justin Stellman 55:11
Totally. I'll try my best. Yeah, for sure.

Matthew Blackburn 55:19
Let me see here. This is a really good one. "What's your favorite information that you've received and put into practice from Atom Bergstrom."

Justin Stellman 55:31
From Atom Bergstrom, um, I think it kind of couples for me along with Dr. Kruse's work, just the circadian timing and understanding that our livers work at certain times, our, you know, small intestines work at a certain time and eating food on time. What I like about Atom's work is that - is that, it makes total sense. And you can apply it to whatever dietary protocol you're doing. And so if you're vegan, you're carnivore, whatever the case is your keto, all these diets that people do, you know, you can do that from a solar nutrition kind of level. And so understanding circadian rhythms and all of that stuff. I think adds in a reallyhelpful for me- to put that kind of stuff into place, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 56:19
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I like that, too. I, I experimented pretty hard with that. Late last year, I think. And early this year, I was doing the almonds every morning and the potatoes at night and felt great.

Justin Stellman 56:32
Yeah, it's funny, because I don't know, Atom's got so much information stored in his head. And sometimes, like, people ask for studies, you know, I'll see responses on Facebook. Is there a study showing XYZ, you know, and sometimes there's studies for stuff and sometimes there's just not, you know, because in order for a study to happen, there's got to be some financial gain behind it. And so a lot of the stuff that he comes up with, there's going to be no financial benefit to doing a study on that. And so it comes down to like, like intuition, and trying things out. And, but he's awesome. I love him. I don't agree with everything he has to say but he's so fun to talk to. I love that guy.

Matthew Blackburn 57:11
Yeah, I love him too. My favorite thing is wearing different colors. I still - I took a break but then I started doing it again, like a week or two ago. And you know, the Roy g biv starting on Monday, different colors. Even taking it far enough to have the same colored mug too.

Justin Stellman 57:28
That's so funny. That's awesome. Yeah, I love Atom. He's, he's cool. He's like a hidden gem, you know, and that alternative healthpace? He's such a disrupter, you know, and I liked that. Yeah, he's cool. I love him.

Matthew Blackburn 57:41
Yeah, he's the best. My friend Gasha asked, "Your thoughts on skin cancer" because I know you mentioned your mom dealt with that, right?

Justin Stellman 57:50
Yeah, so you know, I got a lot of this information from a doctor Jonathan Wright. You know, he's out of Washington. But there's some really interesting information and studies showing like the extract of the eggplant skin like that purple color. They've sort of synthesized that down into a product called BEC5, or Curaderm. And a lot of people apparently have had a lot of success with that. I know Rick Simpson has that whole Ricks RSO oil that you could get and apply topically. I know there's like escharotics, the one I referenced quite often is a guy by the name of Greg Caton. And he has a product on herbhealers.com called I think it's formerly known as Cancema, I think, and a lot of people have success with that. But the question is, what why are we getting skin cancer, you know, like, like, you know, that study that's quite often reference in Australia, where the highest amount of people in Australia getting skin cancer, were people that are, you know, office workers and people who spent the majority of their time indoors, and you have to wonder what kind of light you're exposed to when you're inside versus full spectrum sunlight. And why are people in Australia is part of that study getting skin cancers on areas of their body that are covered up by clothes? And so there's something going on, and I know you referenced a long time ago, this idea of mixing these oxidized oils, and then you go like, basically eating fried food while sitting on the beach, you know, with your sunglasses on and your shoes on and, you know, synergizing the UV light with those fried oils is a really dangerous thing. And so, it's a metabolic disorder and, you know, caused by mineral dysregulation, probably as Morley would say, but I mean, there's a lot to it, but I think those are some places to start, you know.

Matthew Blackburn 59:50
That's awesome. Yeah, I used to go to this waterpark with my friends. I forget the name of it, but it was down in Southern California. I remember like slathering on sunscreen, and going down these water slides and you know, mixing sunscreen, chlorinated water, and just all day sun. And that's probably a recipe for skin cancer too, just all the stuff and the sunscreen, depleting my vitamin C from the chlorine. So I have less antioxidant protection from the sun. It's wild.

Justin Stellman 1:00:24
It's crazy. It's wild. Yeah, it's so wild. And so many other chemicals that are found in traditional sunscreens are just extremely carcinogenic. And you put that on your skin while you're eating fried foods with those rancid oils. And then you're getting, you know, you're baking yourself and that UV light all day long. You know, instead of just spending like an hour in the sun, you're spending like seven, eight hours, and then you go home and then you take your shirt off, and then you you know, get your devices and with the blue light on your, on your skin as well. And there's so many factors to it, but essentially, it's just a living, an unnatural lifestyle, you know, in my opinion, because that's all that stuff that you mentioned. Like it's not natural to be in the sun for eight hours a day. You know, exposed to chlorinated water that's just not natural. You know?

Matthew Blackburn 1:01:08
What's your experience with copper sulfate? Jason Hobbles protocol, I slow down on it. Personally, I think I was - I was taking a lot.

Justin Stellman 1:01:17
Yeah, so I started, you know, just after the show we had with him. I think you had him on and then I think we had him on. I heard about him from you. And then I started doing the copper sulfate probably a few days after. And then I started with like one drop. So I drink three of these like mason jars full of water a day, I just kind of sip on it. And I did one drop and each of the three things because even though we're called like Extreme Health Radio, I feel like I'm the most non extreme guy ever. Like, I don't go full bore into things like you do like jumping right in. So I did one drop or three drops a day, and then I would do more. So now I'm up to 15 drops a day, I do five drops and each one and then only like four days ago that I start doing it topically on the skin. I just never really felt called to do it. And I remember you mentioned how you had this like massive like reaction to it when you did your show with Atom. But I didn't really feel anything from the copper, taking it like this until I started putting on the skin. And now I'm doing some of the other minerals as well. But I don't know what it is. I have to think the absorption is a lot less than doing it transdermally but maybe the - that synergized with taking 15 milligrams a day in my water. Maybe that's kind of synergizing together. But, I don't know. I do feel a lot better, but I don't feel that much different, honestly. But I don't know. I think it's cool.

Matthew Blackburn 1:02:50
Maybe we should switch podcast names. I'll take extreme health radio, you can be Mito Life Radio, no I'm just kidding.

Justin Stellman 1:02:59
I'm so like normal. So, funny.

Matthew Blackburn 1:03:04
No, I think it's - I think it's wise I can get it. And I told the story the first time I did like, I don't know, 10 or 15 dropper fulls was mid interview with Adam Bergstrom. And I definitely got hit with the nausea. It passed. But it was - it was a rough roller coaster.

Justin Stellman 1:03:21
Yeah, it's well, I think it's really important to like, go - go with your gut, you know, I don't feel called or compelled or whatever the word is to do more than I'm doing now. You know, the RDA, the thing I don't understand is I'd like you know, maybe we'll get some, you know, get some information on this. But you know, Morley says that there's, for every 60 milligrams of iron, there's one milligram of copper in your body, right? So it's a 60:1 ratio. And, to me, he uses that as an argument to say that, like you don't really need all that much copper, because it does so much in the body. And it's so powerful, right. But the thing that resonated with me with Jason's protocol is that that didn't make sense to me. And maybe there's a reason behind what Morley says there. But it seems to me that with a massive like, maybe in an ideal world, Morleys protocol with a low copper would be would work for someone. But look at how much iron we have in our body, like I've got like 17,000 milligrams of iron stored in my body in my tissues. And as a result of that, it's really difficult also, to make sure you're not consuming more iron every day. Like, if I have a piece of bread with some turkey on it, and some egg or something like that, I'm gonna get a couple milligrams of iron in that piece of bread. And so it makes sense. It just intuitively makes sense to increase your copper like Jason talks about. It just makes a lot of sense. And so until I get some more clarification on why it's okay to have such low amounts of copper -- from Morley. I'm just gonna keep doing Jason's protocol.

Matthew Blackburn 1:04:57
That's a great point. Yeah, I just learned the Quercetin you know they've been talking a lot about that quercetin Yeah. Because of the last two years. But it helps with the C thing. It's actually an iron chelator, which I found fascinating.

Justin Stellman 1:05:16
Have you ever tried -

Matthew Blackburn 1:05:17
There's a lot of supplements -

Justin Stellman 1:05:20
No, I'm sorry. Did you try - have you tried that IPs, is it IP6? There's some supplement the Morley talks about this supposed to be an iron chelator? I haven't tried that one yet.

Matthew Blackburn 1:05:31
I think I've taken it - yeah, these iron chelators you don't really feel like Shilajit, I feel which is an iron chelator. But I guess because it's also like a nootropic. But I've like made it almost like lactoferrin. You know, I've taken IV6. But I think people have this conception with iron chelators and I had this false belief that it just chelates it into the urine or the bowel. I don't know if it works like that. If you could just like pee out excess iron. Because according to my full monty iron panels that I think both of us are doing with the blood donation. Like I was like two years in between full monty's and my saturation went down. But like my some of my other markers, like, like my thing was ferritin that tripled. So basically, you can with these with these supplements, I think it's my understanding, you can move you can like mobilize it like Morley talks about right and and mobilize it out of the tissues into your bloodstream, which then the only thing you have to do is dump it, which the only solution is donating blood, right?

Justin Stellman 1:06:43
Yeah. So a while ago, I did, I sat down and did the math on the amount of iron that's that you can get rid of while doing a blood donation, I think it's like 250 milligrams, right, of iron, roughly, that you can get rid of in a standard blood donation. And so I thought to myself, okay, so the average person I read somewhere is consuming, I think 15 to 20 milligrams of iron per day, which is insane. But if I were to get that down to like, three, if I can get three milligrams, how long would it take to get my body from 17,000 milligrams of iron stored in my tissues, all the way down to what Morley says the recommendation for a male, it's like 5000. And I want to know how he got to that but let's just say 5000. And so I figured it would take me like 13 years, if I only consumed three milligrams of iron per day, and I did a blood donation every two every 60 days, every two months, it would take me 13 years, but then in that 13 years, I will have consumed even at three milligrams of iron, I will have consumed another 13,000 milligrams of iron. So you can see how this is like it's a, it's just a revolving door. Like you can't really get on top and bring your levels all the way down to where they should be because of what we've done in the past. And so that's why I just cringe when I hear people say that, like, oh, I - my doctor put me on an iron supplement, or, you know, I got an iron infusion. I just go oh my gosh, like you may never be able to recover from that, you know? Yeah, that's scary. I did see your calculation. You posted about that and it was interesting, but also depressing. Yeah, totally.

Matthew Blackburn 1:08:28
What's interesting, because this - the second time I donated, I felt kind of tired. And you know, like Josh said, on my show, you should feel either nothing or like a superhero or superwoman for a few days. And the only thing I did different is I kind of rushed it. Like I had, you know, something going on the next week. And I'm like, I gotta go. now. It's the only day I could do it. And so I just had snacks and went and donated versus before, I had like a burger and fries. I think even a Mexican Coke, like the full thing. I was like, fully charged and it wiped me out. Yeah, I was kind of tired for a few days. And so that's, that's the one suggestion I have for everyone. Just like don't rush it always eat a big meal before. It doesn't have to be 30 minutes before but like an hour or two before you donate, because that made a huge difference for me.

Justin Stellman 1:09:19
Yeah, it's interesting because I have this - I don't know what I guess it's I don't know if it's good or bad, but I don't really feel that much from the different things that I do like. So I could literally wake up without eating and go donate blood on an empty stomach and I guarantee you I wouldn't pass out like I wouldn't. And so I remember Josh on your show, saying that. Those two things you should either feel euphoric, or at the most, at the least it's nothing you know, and so I always just feel nothing like I could just go you know, I could go exercise if I wanted to right after a blood donation. But I always do you know, I take my supplements. I eat a big meal. I drink a bunch of water, you know, and But I think that sometimes you don't have to feel things like whether it's a supplement or whether it's, you know, a blood donation or something like that, you know, people always feel like they have to feel things. And like, if you have a car that's super, super dirty, and you haven't washed it in three years, and then you wash it, it's going to be a big difference, you're going to notice a huge difference. But if you're washing it every week, you're not going to notice much difference, you know, it's going to be, you know, cleaned, and you're not going to notice much difference. So if you're taking care of yourself, I don't think you would feel a lot of different things. And if you do, like for me, and you I know, we have, like, you do so much. I don't know if it's the copper doing it, or the magnesium or whatever else. But sometimes you just do things because you know, it's the right thing to do. And you take care of your system, because it's the right thing to do whether you feel anything or not, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 1:10:50
Mhmm, that's a really good point. Yeah. How long - how many years have you been donating blood? It's been a while, right?

Justin Stellman 1:10:57
Yeah, I think it's been like, three years, three years, probably. Yeah, I just recently, when I sat down and did those calculations about how it's almost impossible to get on top of your iron stores, I just decided, you know, I'm gonna go every two months. And you know, until I feel like I don't need to. And then when I heard Josh on your show, it was so funny, because Josh is such a, like a anti supplement guy. And he's like, all you could all be done with food. And, and I liked that and that's cool. But I thought it was really funny that he said that he donates blood every 60 days, because that's like a rather extreme thing to do. And he's been doing that for like, 12 years or something, he said. And I just thought that for such a non extreme guy to do something so extreme as to donate blood every 60 days, I thought that was really kind of ironic, but so yeah, the plan for me to do is for 60 days, you know, every 60 days, I just switch arms, you know, every time right arm, left arm, and, and I'm just going to do that until I feel compelled not to.

Matthew Blackburn 1:12:00
I'll have to figure that out the switching because they always do my left because I have better, better veins. They always look at my right and say, oh, let's look at the other one. But I don't know, with all the stuff I do. I probably heal faster. I don't know.

Justin Stellman 1:12:14
Yeah because I thought about that, yeah I thought that was like a - yeah, you know, all that stuff you can help repair your veins. You know, some people have - some people, the lady told me some people's veins collapse because they donate so often, you know, so I don't want that to happen, so.

Matthew Blackburn 1:12:31
I always think about the biohackers doing the constant IVs like NAD drips, and, you know, every health conference, you know, every couple of months of doing IVs it's like, I've never done a vitamin IV. I don't know if I ever will but I mean, I guess like you said Kate did one recently and it helped. So I'm not opposed. But I think it's definitely overdone, right? It's like instead of eating food, they're just hooking themselves up to IV.

Justin Stellman 1:12:58
Yeah, it's insane. It's really insane. It's cool to know that it exists, though, like something like ultraviolet blood. You know, that's a mass - a massive oxidant putting light into your blood like that. But it's good to know that stuff like that exists or DMSO IV, I would never get one unless I absolutely had to. Because if you're in a state where you need an IV to get better than you're doing something wrong, you know, so

Matthew Blackburn 1:13:22
Yeah, I was just listening to Dave Asprey yesterday, because he has a lot of good ozone information, like hours and hours of ozone content. And I think he was talking about like, was it five pass ozone or something where they take out your blood ozonate it and then put it back in? And I was wondering, have you ever done that, or?

Justin Stellman 1:13:46
No, no, I haven't. I, you know, if I were, you know, I would rather just do the rectal insufflations, because it's my understanding that's like, 90 to 95% as effective as IV, you know, so I would just do that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:14:03
Yeah, yeah. Definitely less invasive. Someone asked about vitamin A detox. I know you had, was it Grant Genereux I think on your show or the other guy there's a couple, right?

Justin Stellman 1:14:15
Yeah. What's up, man, Doctor? Yeah. What's his name? Garrett Smith. Yeah, because Grant wrote the book. Garrett - yeah, I don't think Garrett's written a book. But, so someone asked about vitamin A detox must be from, from the copper forum, right. Yeah, so my understanding right now is that I've looked at a lot of the the info from Grant's and we had Garrett on the show, Garrett Smith. I don't - right now, I don't subscribe to what they're talking about. As far as vitamin A toxicity. I know it's possible to you know, over, you know, sort of mega dosing, but Jason's group really, you know, he's kind of going down that rabbit trail right now where vitamin A is a poison, you know, and just like Gary Smith talks about, I don't agree with that. And I think that, I think it's really necessary. Specifically for, you know, a lot of reasons like the retinoic acid for the vitamin D synthesis, you know, and to synthesize vitamin D correctly, you know, it, you know, it needs those retinoids to be able to accept vitamin D on the VDR receptor. And so, you know, the RSR and the RAR, all that stuff is really, really necessary. And I don't know if you want to detox vitamin A, maybe just take a ton of vitamin D. I don't know.

Matthew Blackburn 1:15:42
What it's interesting, their argument, like I've heard Jason say this, that it's, it's really hard to be vitamin A deficient because it's in so many foods, but he's referring to beta carotene. But I know the body uses, isn't it copper to convert beta carotene? It's my understanding it's copper to convert beta carotene into retinol, at least that's one of the cofactors. And so is it - Is it the beta carotene that's the problem? Or is it the copper deficiency? You know, I don't know. It's just, I think people get into the weeds there with demonizing the wrong thing.

Justin Stellman 1:16:19
Yeah, and I think that -- I think the conversion to is less than it's either 3 or 13%. I think. And I was reading a research recently about that, and it's really challenging and difficult for the body to convert beta carotene to retinoic acid. And so, to me, it makes so much sense, you know, that's where like Morley stuff I really love because when you understand that, it's that, and I don't fully understand it at all, but it's apparently that 13 cis retinoic acid that allows the copper to be loaded into ceruloplasmin. And without that happening, man, that means if copper is unbound, that means it's going to be bound to some other protein like albumin or (unintelligble) or some other protein, and it's going to be so then you're going to get an HCMA test saying your high copper and your copper toxic, but then that means iron is going to rise, right because of the inflammation. And then when that rises, magnesium is lowered as a result of that. And so you have this cascading effect of oxidation as a result of, you know, not taking enough - and so this is what I worry about with the copper revolution group is, are they harnessing that copper? Like, are they allowing that copper to be loaded into that key proteins ceruloplasmin? And it's my understanding, the only thing that can do it is retinoic acid, unless there's something I don't know. But, you know, I don't know if all this unbound copper is a good thing, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 1:17:53
Yeah, that's a really good point. It's funny all the vitamin C books I'm reading by like Andrew Saul, and what's the other guy? The main vitamin C, people that got one by Linus Pauling, on the way, a lot of them talking about copper toxicity, you know, in the vitamin C conversation, but I don't take that as a sign to just throw out the book. I'm like, okay, I'll just take that with a grain of salt and then read the other information.

Justin Stellman 1:18:23
Yeah, I know, right? Because it's really difficult and I think that I made a post on Instagram a while ago about this. And I just said, like, rather than being in a group, like the Ray Peat group, or the Dr. Kruse group, you know, why don't you just take the, you know, the 60% of Ray Peat that you like, and that works for you and the 60% of Dr. Kruse stuff. Like, I think, I think all of that DHA, man, oh my God, but he's got a lot of good stuff on light and understanding how light impacts our mitochondria is huge. Like, take what makes sense and then just discard the rest and if Morley's right about something or wrong about something, you know, I think it's okay to cherry pick essentially, you know, and just not being in any one camp. I think that's t real problems. No I'm just-

Matthew Blackburn 1:19:07
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Yeah I like Chris Masterjohn had some good articles he wrote, I think it was almost a decade ago or so, at least five years or more on PUFA's. And he has - he has someone fatty acids and it was like perilous or something. Perilous isn't the name of the article, but it was a really long like, article all about polyunsaturated fats linolenic - linoleic vs linolenic. And I liked the point he made that, you know, the essentiality of them, you know, is like 4 to 6% of our intake. And, to me that makes me think of like iron and vitamin D. It's like, you don't have to think about getting them, like people are trying to boost there omega 3's, you're gonna get them no matter what. And you'll probably fall within that 4 to 6% range. You know, in a balanced way not, right.

Justin Stellman 1:20:11
Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, I love Chris's stuff. I watched a ton of his videos, and he's got a really deep understanding of the, of the physiology of stuff. He's great. I think it's cool to to have some (unintelligible) Yeah, I think it's cool to just pull from a lot of different people and to try different things. And, you know, like, you have this on your show, like, you know, people come on, and they'll talk about things that are just completely like, you think they're completely out to lunch about XYZ, but they have some really good information about something else, you know, and you kind of just let them you know, it's not a time for debate, you know. You know, if they want to just believe that or think that whatever, you know, they got some other great information. You know, Chris, Master John, I love his stuff. He's cool.

Matthew Blackburn 1:21:02
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'd like to have a show all about iodine, because Jason got me on that. And, you know, I think about my chlorine exposure for my whole life and now I'm like, wondering, if I've been tanked in iodine for years. I know like Dr. Brownstein, I think he's one of the foremost authorities on iodine. He's - I think he's actually been on Infowars.

Justin Stellman 1:21:25
Oh, I love that. There's this lady - there's this lady. I read her book a long time ago, Lynne Farrow, I think and I reached out to her recently to do a show on iodine. And I think I think we're gonna set it up, but I have to follow back with her but she wrote an iodine book, I think. I think that's what her name is. But, yeah, you know, I think that that's another, you know, contextual thing, how much you know, fluoride and chlorine have you been exposed to, you know, are you exposed to it on a daily basis, maybe your iodine needs, you know, have to go up as a result, but you know, so yeah, especially if you're doing the copper protocol too.

Matthew Blackburn 1:22:09
Even bromine, right? That other halogen because I, I was like a cheese and bread-itarian. You know, quote, vegetarian for years. I was just going out and getting, like, sandwiches with my friends multiple times a week and it was like Subway style bread. You know yoga mat. You know, bromine.

Justin Stellman 1:22:31
Totally. That's so funny.

Matthew Blackburn 1:22:38
It's kind of a random one. Eating leafy greens. What are your thoughts on that? I think because I recently started eating salads again, after taking several years off, and I feel great eating a salad. Curious, your thoughts?

Justin Stellman 1:22:52
Yeah, I don't really consume salads. Like the other day, I had a green juice, which was I felt like, you know what, let's just mix it up, I'll have a green juice. But I don't really do salads that much. I think maybe the benefit to them is just the fiber content and the ability for it to sort of act as like the carrot salad that Dr. Peat talks about, and just acting as roughage, you know, without taking psyllium or something like that, you know, improving digestion. And I think that's really helpful. And I think that, you know, if you do like a carnivore diet, where you're just getting basically zero fiber, you know, I think it's honestly really important to have some kind of fiber coming in, you know, and I know for me, I don't eat salads that often. I do the raw carrot salad, like, a couple times a week, I need to do it more. But yeah, I've been off the greens, you know, ever since the, the raw vegan days, I haven't done too many greens at all.

Matthew Blackburn 1:23:52
Well, you're probably eating like, a salad every day, right? I know, I was when I was raw vegan.

Justin Stellman 1:23:57
Oh man, I would do a salad every day, I would have green juice, I would have a green juice every day, a green smoothie every day and green powder and you know, stuff I was doing. It was like green overdose. And I think that, um, you know, if you're doing something like that, there's a difference between having something every once in a while, you know, like having some crackers that has canola oil in it, you know, once or twice a year, versus doing something every day. And I was doing that every day for seven years and not realizing that all that stuff, like you talked about is loaded with iron, like all of this plant based food is loaded with iron. You know, and, you know, that's a real issue. And so, I don't know I've kind of steered away from that and now I let the animals do the filtering for me, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 1:24:50
I'm sure you saw the recent Kim Kardashian commercial she did for Beyond Meat. It was - like it didn't even show her like taking a bite. It would always cut away she's like just like putting up to her mouth and then the camera would cut away.

Justin Stellman 1:25:02
No way I didn't see that. No way. That's hilarious. Wow.

Matthew Blackburn 1:25:09
Good magic act. Yeah.

Justin Stellman 1:25:13
That's like when politicians will get the sharp thing on camera, right? It's like a saline -- that's funny.

Matthew Blackburn 1:25:23
Someone asks, Are they - are they staying in California or peacing out? You guys were considering leaving, right?

Justin Stellman 1:25:32
Oh, man. Yeah, that's a that's a discussion Kate and I have like, on a regular basis. It's really hard because my family's here and you know, my mom's 81 And my dad's 81. And so they're at the point in their life where they are just like, they they need help, you know. And so, I have this whole, you know, philosophy that like, it always sort of upset me when I would see how society treats its elders. And it just, it really kind of made me upset about to see that because, you know, putting people in old folks home, like any one of us would never want to be put into an old folks home, like, that's the worst, right? And to have family members that a mom and dad that love you and take care of you. And they change your diapers, and they feed you and they give you food and they nourish you, and they raise you and all this time and effort. And then for you to just leave on bad terms with them and not be close to them and help them in their elder years to me just never made sense. And so until they pass, I don't want to leave California because I'm really good friends with them and they totally understand all the BS that's going on right now. And so they're like, I can talk with them about anything. And so I'm really close to them and I don't want to leave them and Kate's family's here as well. And, you know, Atom Bergstrom is here. So you know, but I, I want to leave, but I love the ocean and the beach so much that it's like, Ah, it's so hard because nowhere would feel like home. Like my dream would be to have like what you have, like maybe in Hawaii, where you're right across the street from the beach. I could go surfing all day, and then I could just homestead the rest of the time, you know, but at some point, I think we may be forced out. And I hope it's not. I don't know, I hope it's not soon.

Matthew Blackburn 1:27:23
Yeah, I feel like we have time until things get bad. You know, it's like every year, especially up here where I live in North Idaho. I'm in prepper territory, like a lot of my friends up here that I meet that helped me do stuff on the house. There, a lot of them are like, you know, it's about to go down. You know, I remember I think last year all the lights turned off at the Vatican, you know, and that's never happened before and this guy was freaking out. He's like, I'd get gasoline right now as like. I don't know, just kind of the alarmist kind of, you know, it seems like a lot of these people were just stuck in fight or flight. They're just like waiting for, you know, the shoe to drop. And I know you hear about agenda 2030. Like what that's we have eight years, right so?

Justin Stellman 1:28:19
Yeah, well, I mean, I've heard too, that they're, they pushed that up from - I don't know if you've heard about the Deagel report, where they talked about the population? Have you heard about that? Where they have, like, this deagel was apparently a company that the government sort of outsources to, to look at projections and a number of different fields. And one of the things they do is they isolate different aspects of the population. And they do a 10 year projection. And in 2015, they did a 10 year projection for the population of the US, and 2025. And it was like 64 million people or something like that. And so all these people are saying, like, what does that mean? Like, how in 2015? Did they know the you know, the US population is going to be reduced by that many people? I think that's like one in every, I don't five people are going to be left or something. And so there's a lot of scare tactics and I think there's, if there's ever been a time where you should heed the advice of the prepping community, it's now, you know, 10 years ago, I would have just sort of laughed at it and said, Yeah, I'd like to prep but, you know, but if there's ever been a time where it's important to listen to some of that information, and to not get bogged down in it, because you could get so bogged down in this stuff, dude, it's like, it could just make you feel like the world's gonna end any second and you're just like neurotic, you know? It's just important to have some -- less fear about them.

Matthew Blackburn 1:29:48
Yeah, I love that. I often think you know, because I went for years down the Extra Terrestrial rabbit hole like I don't read 20+ books on the topic. Not channeled. You know, like actual books. It's really tied. You know, Steven Greer talks about the connection with free energy and this, you know, technology, that's being suppressed. And being out here dependent on sun for my electricity, it just seems so archaic. And I'm like, Man, if I had, quote, unquote, free energy, or just, you know, a machine like, supposedly exists like a little box that could power my house for 100 years, apparently, from just, you know, energy around it, whatever, the vacuum, you know, that would be a game changer. Like that would be - that would be the ultimate prepping tool. Because if you have power, you could do so much with that you can make distilled water to make your own colloidal silver, which right now, I have a distiller, but to run that thing for six hours, it's a ton of electricity. So just all these little things we don't think about that we could do if we had power, you know, it's not just about running your computer. Yeah, I know, it's amazing to think about what could be possible and, like the suppression that we all know, exists, you know, with the gasoline and the oil, and this, you know, artificial shortages and all this stuff that doesn't really exist, but they tell us that there's limited amounts of these things. And, you know, and the fact that like, every person that comes up with some technology ends up dying, you know, you're like, Oh, another guy that invented, you know, a car to run on water. Oh, well, he died. That's odd, you know, but these types of things are being suppressed and, and if we, if we could just get rid of all those people that are doing that suppression, imagine how amazing our lives could be dude. It'd be amazing. Did you ever go down the the oil rabbit hole, like I read a post this morning, it was saying like fossil fuels was like a propaganda invented term, to steer us away from understanding that oil is a renewable resource. That's not a finite one.

Justin Stellman 1:31:58
Yeah, so apparently, it's like the water shortage is to like it's all connected to the hydrological cycle, which means that like, the amount of water that's available, it has always been available and there's no shortage of these things. But they're manufactured in such a way as to make us think that there's a shortage and so they can control and manipulate, who gets what, and who gets access to how much and all that kind of stuff. And it's, you know, it wouldn't surprise me, I think that everything about what we know about the world is completely, probably different than what we think it is. And, and so I like living in that mystery, you know, personally.

Matthew Blackburn 1:32:38
Yeah, it's fun. To be the virtual reality like that we're living in a simulation. You know, Elon talks about, Elon Musk. That's what kind of freaks me out.

Justin Stellman 1:32:52
Yeah, I know. Like, you mean that like, we are living in a simulation? Like, aside from the metaverse and all that stuff?1 Yeah, yeah. That - that, to me is wild. Kay was just showing me, have you ever looked at those those pictures of like, of, like celebrities that look like people that used to live in like the 17 - 1800s. And there's, like, you know, pictures of all these current celebrities that have these like, doppelganger counterparts that look just like them, you know? And so it's who knows what we're living in? You know, it's crazy.

Matthew Blackburn 1:33:34
Yeah, yeah, we could - I put this idea out there a month ago, and probably people put it out there before me that, you know, you always hear about the artificial intelligence, take over the singularity, right? Ray Kurzweil, and just like that, that's coming. But I was like, what if it's already happened, and all these celebrities and politicians are AI, and we think they're human, and then they're being controlled by, you know, some draconian thing, or something? Like you said, it could be way wilder than we can imagine?

Justin Stellman 1:34:04
Yeah, because like, you know, to me, when I first got introduced into sort of alternative thinking, I remember, I was like, 12 years old, and they were teaching me how they built the pyramids, you know, with these ropes and these slaves that would do it, right. And that was the first time I thought that just seems way like too hard to do, you know. And then, you know, time went on and the - and then I ran into a guy who had a house down by the beach. And it's funny, like the beach riffraff, the people that live by the beach, are just so funny and different. But this guy used to study ancient civilizations. And so he - this, this was like 1997, or eight. And he would always bring out his pictures and talk about how they built these ancient pyramids and all this stuff. And it just totally fascinated me and it opened my mind up to like the suppression of information. And then when I started getting into the health field, you realize like, okay, so they're suppressing stuff on health. They're suppressing stuff on a history. There's suppressing stuff on science on religion and every aspect of life, there's suppressed information. And so, you know, it really is to me, rather than having a formulated framework where nothing can change. I like living in a place where it's dynamic. And you know, if you're presented with new information, you're willing to change your mind. And that goes for like, the dietary advice, but then it also gets into everything else, our history, where we live, and you know, whether we're being - it's like a simulation like you talked about, to me, when you live in that mystery, and you're constantly searching going down rabbit trails, that's to me, what makes life like super fun. You know, I love that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:35:43
It's awesome, completely agree. Sorry, our mutual friend Adam here. Adam Marafioti of lifeblud asks, "What are his top alternative cancer protocols?"

Justin Stellman 1:35:56
Oh god, did he distinguish, like prevention or if you had cancer?

Matthew Blackburn 1:36:01
Um, he didn't distinguish. But yeah, whatever, whichever one you want. Maybe if you already have it?

Justin Stellman 1:36:09
Well, like, you know, if I mean, to me, it comes down to like the production of energy. And if you can make more energy, then you can heal from just about anything. And so you have to look at the mitochondria and how, you know, people create ATP out of that. And, you know, that gets into the work of Morley that gets into, you know, you know, the work of Jason with copper and that kind of stuff. And so in terms of prevention, I think, really, it's just a return to nature. And, you know, I'm finishing up the book, the magnesium miracle, I think, by Carolyn Dean. And she talks about magnesium is that - and that's basically the cure all and like, end all cure all? And I think that, you know, there's all kinds of things that you could do if you've been diagnosed and so like, depends skin cancer is different. But if it's an internal cancer, you know, I know Atom talks a lot about how cancer spreads in an alkaline environment, and it metastasizes or, or grows in an acidic environment and spreads in - I forget what he said something like that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:37:18
I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin Stellman 1:37:20
Is that right? Yeah. But you know, there's so many different things, it's really hard because some people heal on Gerson, which is like total plant based, you know, 12 coffee enemas a day, some people healing, like doing the Hoxsey Protocol, or the Beljanski protocol, there's that protocol. Some people heal - you know, if you're a part of the Morley Robbins group, there's people that have healed cancer using his protocols to so it's really difficult to say, but I think it's really important for all of us to know that these protocols exist, and to explore them. Because if you're just a normie, off the street, and the doctor says, you have some extra cells growing, it just freaks you out and then you start, then you're just like, you got to go 1000 miles an hour to get where you and I are. And we're Atom is because he's super, super smart. And you have to do this learning curve of like, 20 years of research in like a year, and it's overwhelming to people. So I think it's really important to understand how the body works, and to do everything you can to prevent it, and to optimize your health so that it never happens, you know.

Matthew Blackburn 1:38:25
That's an awesome answer. Yeah. Yeah, my realtor, because I moved from my first Idaho house and when I sold that, that other house, my realtor told me when I first met her, we were just talking about health and I was telling her what I do for work. And she said, I taste iron when I eat a steak, like I just get this really metal taste and I love steak, I wish I could eat it, but it's just too like metallic for me. And I said, it sounds like you have iron overload. And she says, really, and so basically, I got her on like beef liver and you know, the copper and the magnesium and all the basic stuff. And now she's just like raving about it. Like, I think, so what you said, like, looking at someone's past is really important, especially when they come down with a diagnosis. It's like, what - were they raised eating honey nut cheerios like me and lucky charms and pop tarts and like, what kind of water were they drinking but just maybe most importantly, how much iron fortified foods they consume? Because that was I was just mega dosing iron for at least 15 - 20 years my life probably 20 years of just tons of iron. I don't even want to think of how many milligrams a day.

Justin Stellman 1:39:48
Yeah, yeah, no, it's like wild because like I know Morley says that there's like nine different types of iron that are added to our food supply, all I have which are carcinogenic. And I think he explains something that's classified as a carcinogen, has to promote, spread and grow cancer. And apparently all three of those do, or all nine of those do all three. Which, which kind of makes you think, are they trying to do this or not? You know, do they know that it's doing this? And so, like, he basically flat out says that iron causes cancer. And it makes sense from a biological perspective. And you you understand a little bit about oxidation and his work with that. And, and so, you know, for me is like a foundation, I think that protocol along with your - the CLF protocol, and addressing these root causes, I think is, you know, should be at the, at the foundation of someone's approach, you know, and then you can explore other ideas. But there's so many people that have reversed cancers using so many different methods like ozone, and DMSO IV, it's I mean it's crazy, what's out there. And so I think it's important for people to educate themselves, because the latest stats I looked at was, it used to be one out of every two men would be diagnosed with cancer at some point in their life, and one out of every three women. But the latest I looked at is if you're born after 1960 men or women had a 50% chance of being diagnosed, at some point. And so that's probably because I don't know the non native EMF like Dr. Kruse talks about or that combined with the iron fortification program? Who knows? But there's definitely a tie in there.

Matthew Blackburn 1:41:35
Yeah, yeah. There's so many factors. Have you done an episode on mold? Jason, because we got to - or Justin, sorry. Mixing up - we've been talking about Jason Hobble so much.

Justin Stellman 1:41:50
No worries.

Matthew Blackburn 1:41:53
How bad is - how bad is mold and what to do if you're sensitive to it?

Justin Stellman 1:41:59
Yeah, so I kind of vacillate on this. I know, you've done a couple of shows on mold and I've done a few ones on mold as well. Why is it I always asked myself, why is it that some people can live in a mold written house and be affected and some people don't? You know, and, and so Morley's answer is like, well, they're deficient in copper, because apparently, the one of the copper enzymes, or one of the - not histamine A's, but another copper. I forget what it is. But basically, it's copper dependent. And if you lack copper, you're gonna have more sensitivities, to not just food, but to mold and environmental toxins as well. And so I would follow - who was that girl? I follow her on Instagram, and I think you had her on your show, too. She's really good with mold. Oh, man, I'm forgetting her name.

Matthew Blackburn 1:42:49
Oh, is it PJ? PJ Harlow.

Justin Stellman 1:42:53
Harlow. Yeah, yeah, I would follow her work. Because the mold is a whole separate, you know, thing, that I would focus on strengthening the host, balancing your minerals, freeing up energy, so your body can produce ATP to deal with the mold. And then I would work on your on yourself as a host first, and then you definitely have to fix your environment. So if that means mitigating, I would work with someone like her to fully understand how to mitigate all the stuff that's going on in your home. And maybe it means moving, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 1:43:24
Yeah, yeah, that's great. I know. Charles barber said with his ozone unit, he just runs it through - like, if you have a central air, like if his family leaves for the day, or a vacation, and he doesn't have animals inside, he'll just pump the ozone into the ambient air in his house and kind of just flood his house with ozone. Which if you don't have a dog or a cat, you can do that but he says when he gets home, he like opens the door and you have to like hold your breath and like go and turn off the unit and then open all the windows to air it out. Because you cant - it'll irritate your lungs, you can't breathe it.

Justin Stellman 1:44:02
Yeah, there's there's a lot of practical mitigation strategies like, you know, the guy that started Living Streams Mission, he's got a mold product that you can spray kind of like a fogger that you can spray throughout your house. I think that's like livingstreamsmission.com. And, and, but there's a lot of things that you could do, but I think strengthening the host is number one, and balancing your minerals as a foundation and then obviously fixing your house or moving but I don't think you could do one without the other. You know, I really do think that you know, mold - like living in a moldy house is probably like having a mercury filling where it's putting a, just a burden on your immune system you know that your body's got to constantly deal with all the time and so yes, you can probably mitigate the symptoms by balancing your minerals but you know, why put that stress on your immune system so I would fix both the environment and your home or in your your body as well.

Matthew Blackburn 1:44:58
That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, I remember PJ was saying the dishwashers usually the worst, so she recommends like keeping the dishwasher cracked open. But she said, over time, it'll eventually grow mold if you close it every time after a cycle because it's a dark wet environment. And that, that always stuck with me.

Justin Stellman 1:45:17
Yeah, it's funny you do these shows, you know, like you've done 100+ or something, I've done 700 and, like, sometimes you just take one or two things from an episode that you can remember, you know, but it's all good.

Matthew Blackburn 1:45:33
Here's a good one best advice, to not come across as crazy to family and friends.

Justin Stellman 1:45:39
My gosh, you know, man, having been in this since 2003, probably in a in a full time way. I would say it's best to just not talk about it at all. You know, there are times when you know, I'll go over to Kate's parents house, Kate's parents are about as normal as you can be. And, you know, I'll go over there sometimes, and I'll have like my yellow glasses that I have on now I'll be wearing those, but they don't really ask any questions. You know, I just tried to be as normal as possible. If I have a bunch of supplements, like if I'm gonna eat some bad food, and I have my you know, Mito Life you know, vitamin E and my enzymes and stuff like that. I'll literally just kind of take my supplements when no one's watching. Honestly, I don't really want to talk about anything like this unless they ask, you know, because I don't know, it's just, if they're curious, they know what I do. But um, obviously, people have their own thing, and they don't want it. I think they feel threatened a lot of people, you know, because like, you probably have friends and family that are on pharmaceuticals. And they know what you do and then they can ask you and you could just give them six hours - a six hour conference, you know, but, you know, they don't ask you and so they don't ask me, so I just I just let it go. I don't really act strange. I don't know. It's - I just try to fit in as much as possible.

Matthew Blackburn 1:47:08
Hmm, I like that. Yeah, I'm the same way. That's a lower stress way because I think if you try to get that savior complex, of like, trying to save friends and family, it just ends up taking you down. You know, it's like, I think that's part of the whole agenda. It's like, stress us out.

Justin Stellman 1:47:28
Yeah, I remember, Dr. Massey was on our show. And he does a lot of work with like, recall healing and stuff. And he was talking about that Karpman's Drama Triangle. When he said that, like three, like, each person lives in one of three energy fields and that's the victim, the victim mentality, the perpetrator, or the helper. And we all sort of cycle in these three energy fields, we kind of go through like, I'm the victim, or I'm the helper, I'm the perpetrator. But we're sort of hardwired for one of those as our default state. And what he was saying was like, the people that tend to be the weakest in their immune system aren't like the perpetrator or the, or the victim, it's always the helper. And he gave the example of like, you look at someone like Hugh Hefner, or some of these guys, like, are the like, the Queen of England, you know, she's like, 96 years old, or, you know, George Soros, he's like, 150, you know, like, these guys are so old and yet, they're doing apparently the work that they love, right, which is, God knows what, what they're really doing. But these people are connected to a mission, and they're not trying to, like, they're - they have the perpetrator mentality, like they're gonna go out and do and live their life the way they want. And it's always the people that are the weakest community are the people that try to help everyone. And my identity is like, tied up in how I can turn someone around or cure them of this disease, when I just literally gave up on all of that stuff, because I realize how closed everyone is when this whole thing happened two years ago, like no one wants to hear my opinion on anything. And so all right, that's cool. You get to go live and do whatever you want to do and I'm not trying to change anybody, you know.

Matthew Blackburn 1:49:12
That's, that's awesome. I love - I love that. It's the same with like, private messages too right? On social media, because I used to spend all day long and I've done it, where it's just eight hours just responding to messages and trying to help as many people as I could for free, but not only does that exhaust you when you do that, but the people are often ungrateful and they just my experience has been most of them just keep milking you for free information. And some of them might even turn around and attack you later on. So you just never know. It's just not - like you really have to protect your time and energy.

Justin Stellman 1:49:48
Yeah, dude, I remember. Cuz I'm in that phase right now, where I'm doing that a lot. And you were doing that years ago, and I remember you started just leaning away from that, like, I'm not your as your savior, whatever you've posted, like, I'm not your, I'm not your guru or something like that you posted but On call nurse. On call nurse. Yeah. And I think and I'll get messages from people like that are angry that I'm not responding and stuff like that, you know, and when I do get a good question, I'll try to respond and screenshot and highlight it, you know, but, um, you know, I don't mind doing that. And I like doing that because I want to, you know, help people. But ultimately, like, it comes down to someone seeking out like, if your health is to the point where you need, like a response from me or response from you in order to get better, then something's really not good. You know. So, I think ultimately, it's like the Chinese proverb where they say that like, the person that's doing the seeking, the remedy in the form of herbs would always help that person more, because they have to work for it, right? They have to, like, go out on the expedition and spend three or four hours trying to find this particular herb to heal themselves. And that's the journey and so if, if I'm having a problem, and I message someone, they don't get back to me, well, then I just got to go somewhere else and get that. So that's, you know, like, you literally can't respond to everyone. It's just too much. You know, especially with your account you got like a million followers, whatever you have, you know,

Matthew Blackburn 1:51:23
It's funny, I've been shadow banned for like a year to where they actually like, slow -- it so crazy the restrictions they can put on social media accounts now, like, people messaged me saying that they almost can't search my name when they fully type in my name. Like I think, you know, you can type every letter Matt Blackburn except for the N, and I won't show up like you have to do the - every letter.

Justin Stellman 1:51:50
Yeah. Well, I've done that with you and I can't - I can't tag you on Instagram, either. I think that's been unavailable for a long time.

Matthew Blackburn 1:52:01
Yeah. I want to ask you, Justin, I should have asked you earlier, but I guess we still have time. I really wanted to talk about dental health and just teeth and gums because I know you've had experience with studying root canals and stuff. And just a question for me, like, I guess just kicking it off. Do you think it's important for people for everyone to get regular dental checkups, even if it's like once a year? Or do you think there's holistic ways around it? So I've tried to tie talking to Adam Bergstrom about this. And he was kind of cryptic in his responses every time I asked him about dental health. He would say just look into the blotting brush and and that's about it. And then I know some people just did like a no brushing experiment, which didn't turn out well. And then there's the only flossing, and there's so many different schools of thought with dental health, and I just feel like it's like I read a stat yesterday, in a study I found it said 90% of people in the US have periodontal disease. 90% I was stunned. I was like, wow, that's almost everybody.

Justin Stellman 1:53:19
Wow, that's, that's amazing. Yeah, I think that that like with, with this stuff, I think it really depends on how - what you eat, and you know, obviously, what you eat. But then I think that like, the more you, you dial in your diet, and you take care of your teeth, I think the less you need to go get cleaned. I am a big advocate of going to a biological dentist. If it's just for like a cleaning or something like that, I don't think you need to go see a biological dentist for that. But if you're gonna get like your mercury fillings removed, or if you're gonna get like a root canal, or your cavitations kind of dialed in and cleared up and cleaned out. I think you really should see a biological dentist for that. And of course, every dentist will tell you that you have to come in once a year for cleaning. But I don't think necessarily if we're doing the right things that you necessarily need to do that. I know Adam was experimenting for a while. Adam Marafioti with not brushing at all based on Dr. Cowen's work, you know. And I think that I don't think that that's really a good idea either. But I think that like doing some things like if you could swish once a day with like an ozonated water, I think that would be really, really beneficial. I just came across some information the other day, and I shared it on Instagram, where I talked about, it wasn't sugar that's causing the dental decay and cavities, but it was the specific bacteria and it was the the excretions of this bacteria that causes the cavities to happen and so it's not even sugar at all. And I'll bring it up here really quickly. But for me, I just floss. And I do some ozonated water every now and then I should do more every day. But you know, I take your vitamin K2, I take this product called pearlcium. And you have another one with his like a pearl powder, basically. But I think it's possible to reverse cavities, I really do. And I think it's possible to prevent them. And I don't think you need to go get your teeth cleaned once a year if you're doing all the right things. But I know Adam had an issue with putting two different kinds of metal in his mouth. And that's what that's what caused his teeth to, to decay. So this is a staph - Staphylococcus aureus, and it consumes the residue on the teeth. And it's the waste of this bacteria that causes cavities. And so, I just found this out a couple days ago. So I'm gonna look into this Staphylococcus aureus bacteria and see what I can find out about it. But um, I don't know. I mean, it's a real - it's a real thing. Because remember that guy that wrote that book? Oh, gosh, what was his - Liam Scheff? Do you remember that guy? He wrote that - he wrote a book called official stories. And it went into like the 10 official stories that the government's told us like JFK, 911, all that stuff. But he essentially went to - I think a non biological dentist that took out his mercury fillings or something that caused some sort of neuralgia and some nerve damage in his jaw. And he ultimately ended up dying as a result of that, like it's a really big deal to make sure this stuff is done correctly, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 1:56:50
That is wild. Wow. Yeah and there's the whole like gum health aspect to which I've been reading like vitamin C really supports gum health and also retinol, vitamin A, like I think cod liver oil was traditionally one of its uses was for gum and teeth problems like just overall dental problems. Just increasing the vitamin A, and some people say it's the vitamin D, but I think it's more - more so the retinol.

Justin Stellman 1:57:20
Yeah, I think that I think that your K2 product would be like at the top of the list, having some sort of calcium based product that's like a living source of calcium like I think crucial four has one there's one called pearlcium, that can be used to brush with, I think blotting and flossing is really good. And I think rinsing your mouth with ozonated water helps a lot as well. But there's also this dentist I listen to - long time ago like when I first got involved in this, that talked about all toothpaste has glycerin in it, most all toothpaste and the glycerin prevents the remineralization of teeth. And I thought that was really interesting that you would get like your dentist would give you a toothpaste with glycerin in it, which would cause the - or prevent the remilitarization of teeth. And that makes total sense because then you gotta go back and see him for cavities, right? But, finding a toothpaste that doesn't have that I brush with like sea salt and baking soda, you know. But, but also, I think too, supporting things like getting off of the vitamin D because that's going to screw up your teeth because of mineral and bone metabolism. But I think that understanding like connective tissue and realizing that collagen plays a big role too in in bone formation, which I think Jason's mentioned that, like 35% of bone is collagen, which is which is interesting. So you know, having those supportive proteins that make collagen like copper, and gelatin and things like that can definitely help.

Matthew Blackburn 1:58:58
Yeah, those are great tips. Let's see maybe one or two more here. Any thoughts on herniated discs?

Justin Stellman 1:59:08
Oh, man herniated discs. I can I can attest to that. Yeah. Yeah so there's a lot of different things you can do. I don't I think that surgery is pretty low on the totem pole in terms of things that will actually work. Most surgery doesn't work for it. What I would probably what I've done and what I - I go to a chiropractor on a semi regular basis. If I could get daily chiropractic, I would because I had an injury in my back years ago when I was lifting in the gym, and I didn't do it correctly. I was lazy and I knew I shouldn't have done it. But I've never been the same since. What I found that works really well for me is is using the fisher traction device And I think that device is really important for me, it's a basically it's like $100, and you can attach it to your door. And it does the same, it does traction on your back. So essentially just separates and allows the flexion of your discs back and forth to allow the disc to go back in, because that's what it wants to do. And you can release the pressure. And I wanted to do the Saunders device, but I realized, like, you gotta get this palm thing and it was like $600, it's just, you had to strap yourself into it. So I ended up going to a local place here that I think they charge like 100 or 200 bucks a session. And they wanted me to go for 20 sessions for like a month. And after a month, I'm just like, I can't keep doing this. It's just too expensive. And so for 150 bucks, you can get a fisher traction device, and it works better than that, in my opinion. And so I get massages on a regular basis. Obviously I do my minerals - I do DMSO topically from time to time and magnesium topically. So there's a lot of things you can do. But I think that you should avoid surgery.

Matthew Blackburn 2:01:15
You got me on that pump device. Was it that pressure pump or something that you put under your neck like that balloon -- thing? I cant remember the name of it. (unintelligible) That's amazing. Yeah.

Justin Stellman 2:01:27
Yeah, that thing's rad.

Matthew Blackburn 2:01:30
Yeah, I went to - I went to a house party and I was sitting next (audio cutout) I was talking to a chiropractor at a house party like a couple months ago, and I was asking him about that device. And he was, he's a really advanced chiropractor in Washington, like beyond your normal chiropractor. Like he's doing like long term rehabilitation for people. And he was saying like, yeah, that device works. You know, if you if you can't see a chiropractor, that's like a great thing to have. He's like, yeah, I've used them in my practice.

Justin Stellman 2:02:02
Wow. Yeah. There's there's other things you could do to like, there's a lot of things that you could do, like you could do cupping. You can buy these like devices now that - that use red light therapy and heats combined with cupping. You could do like neural therapy. There's a there's a doctor, a naturopathic doctor Jeff Harris out of Washington, I think that has a list of neurotherapy practitioners. You could do prolozone, you know, Adam, on our show about methylene blue - or no, was it Adam? No. Okay, so I was reading the book by Mark Sloan, The Ultimate Guide to methylene blue. And he was in he was talking about in that book that you could get discs to go back into place when when you're injected with methylene blue. And I was like, why I never heard of injecting methylene blue in your back to let you know for your disc. But apparently it's a thing and so I brought it up to Adam. And I think he was going to look into it but I haven't looked into that but there's a lot of things you can do, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 2:03:03
Yeah, yeah, I think that's why my account got shadow banned - was talking about methylene blue because I got flagged for selling, quote illicit drugs. And I think I was like, promoting the troscriptions little troches little packets It's wild. It must - it must be effective.

Justin Stellman 2:03:23
Yeah, I know. It's really weird. These things that they get you on to seems like innocuous like, no, turpentine or MMS or methylene blue like these things don't seem to be big threats. But apparently, apparently they are. Yeah, it's wild.

Matthew Blackburn 2:03:42
Yeah, Robert Cassar just texted me the other day and he said he wrote like a 50 page, little ebook or something on all the anti parasitic medications. Like mebendazole and there's all the bendazole type stuff. And I think I have a few of my cabinet. And I guess a lot of them are anti cancer treatments, these anti parasitic drugs, but they're also effective against other infections, so.

Justin Stellman 2:04:14
Yeah, that's really interesting. I read a - there's a PDF out there and I have it somewhere on my computer of a guy and I want to say it's the cure the time for God, but that's more about methylene or ultraviolet blood. But there's that fenbendazole - mebendazole anti cancer treatment, and people apparently are having really good success turning their cancers around with that. It's crazy.

Matthew Blackburn 2:04:40
Yeah, yeah, it's wild all the affordable therapies that we have access to that are just - people have no idea and they just get scared and they get pushed into whatever.

Justin Stellman 2:04:51
Yeah, totally, totally.

Matthew Blackburn 2:04:52
Let me see. Maybe we can end with this one. This is pretty good. "What advice would you give to yourself 5 or 10 years ago, or at the beginning of every health journey?"

Justin Stellman 2:05:08
Um, geez, that's a - that's a good question I want to hear your response too but my response would probably be like, just keep an open mind and don't, don't buy into any one person. And I still hold to that, like, I don't think for a while there when I first got into health, like in 03, you know, I thought that raw food was the answer for everything you know. But I think that it's important to not buy into any one philosophy. Because once you sort of take a position like that, then you kind of narrow your options, you marginalize your ability to see beyond what could be healing for you. You know, and I think that I purposely don't want to be someone who buys into all of Morley stuff for all of Dr. Kruse's stuff for any one person, I want to stay outside of all of that, and use parts of everything that they talk about. But I think it's really important to keep an open mind and keep doing things where you're not - you're not doing them to prevent, you know, like, getting a sickness, like they're saying is going around right now, or to prevent, like, I've got diabetes in my family. So I'm doing this thing to prevent the ultimate outcome, which is me getting diabetes or something like that. I think it's important to do these things, because you love yourself. And you, you want to see how much energy you can have, you know, you want to see, you want to be the best version of yourself, instead of just doing everything to prevent things. And so, like, so I look at it, like, how long can we live? Can we live in a strong, flexible, able capable body when we're 90 - 100 years old? Is that possible? And going in that direction, so that we're filled with energy and exuberance and excitement for life, and all that stuff. Instead of just doing everything as a negative, like, oh, I want to just prevent cancer or something like that, like, you know, going to see what what you can do in this world? You know, I think that's the mindset to have.

Matthew Blackburn 2:07:13
I love that. That's awesome.

Justin Stellman 2:07:17
How about you?

Matthew Blackburn 2:07:18
All of that and I would add, tune into your nervous system, because I've found off and on over the last 10 years, as I'll get in these states, where I don't recognize that I went down quite a few notches, and just became comfortable there at that low level state of anxiety or just not being fully grounded. And just being able to recognize when I'm shifting into those states, and just constantly kind of tuning in and checking in with my body and my nervous system to see. Like recently, I finally did the adrenal cocktail consistently. And this was after I moved back to Idaho in January, and I did three times a day, just very consistent with it. And it was a lot of work because it's fresh squeezed orange juice every time. So it's a time investment. But I also took a week off a coffee at some point in that month. Experiment. And I just found my nervous system healed substantially in that month from just giving it extra potassium, which most people are deficient in, they don't get anywhere close to 4000 milligrams a day that they need. You know, which not to mention the sodium and the magnesium, a lot of the time, magnesium will get the focus like I was focusing on but I was forgetting about potassium and sodium, which are just as important. So that's, that's the advice I would give to myself and others just tune-in to your nervous system constantly and, you know, if you're in a situation, whether it's a relationship or living situation, or work situation that's keeping you stuck in that state, identify it, that's the first step of being able to get out of it. And once you're out of it, then you could regain your energy, your creativity, your balance in life, and keep moving forward the pace that you want.

Justin Stellman 2:09:34
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I remember first meeting you at that book launch. I think the Jing slingers like years ago, right? In LA, and that was so fun. And it was funny because like Kate was there, and then like a lot of other wannabe sort of celebrities were there trying to like, you know, promote themselves or whatever. But it was like you and your friends - had a couple of friends that were with you. And I was just talking with you the whole time because everyone else just seemed kind of fake to me. It was just, it was just fun to connect with you and I was probably like, eight, nine years ago by now.

Matthew Blackburn 2:10:13
I felt the same way. Yeah. I'm so glad that we met. And, yeah, it's amazing looking back at like, the divine orchestration of everything and how things happened. And, you know, even me partnering with the wrong guy, and, you know, starting a project with the wrong person and going down this road for quite a long time, the wrong way. It was all - it was all worth it. To connect with the right people ultimately, and, and share different information that's actually improving lives. But yeah, I was just gonna say I appreciate what you and Kate are doing a lot with your show. You guys inspired me - I wouldn't have this podcast without you. You were the one who stayed on the "Matt, you should start your own podcast" and you would just keep checking in every couple of weeks or every month and it's fine. "Okay, Justin, I'll start it, fine." Really, really credit you for that - really appreciate that.

Justin Stellman 2:11:13
No, that was awesome. Yeah, because I remember, I watched your Instagram stuff. And I was just thinking like, I don't have like on my phone, I don't have internet. So I just I connect to the Wi Fi. And then I turn it down, and I turn it off. And so I just kept thinking, like, I like to download a podcast from you and listen to it. But you hadn't done one yet. So I kept on you about that. And your show is awesome, dude. It's like you have on the coolest guests and you're really pushing the envelope with things. And to me, it's like the number one. It's like when your episode comes out. That's my favorite podcast. You know, I listen to all your stuff. Just constantly trying to learn more and more and more, you know, so thanks for all you do, dude.

Matthew Blackburn 2:11:51
Oh, I appreciate that. Thanks, Justin. Yeah, and I'll, I'll keep sharing your show because I I love the the guests that you have on. And it's yeah, it's cool to find authentic people that actually care about helping people and that care - that are passionate about continuously connecting dots instead of just, you know, staying comfortable with where things are at. Like, we often say the alternative alternative health right? Taking it at least one step further.

Justin Stellman 2:12:23
Yeah, totally. And I - really does ruffle a lot of feathers because I get a lot of pushback, I'm sure you do, too, about the vitamin D thing, or fish oils, or whatever the case may be. But I think that if you really want to help people like and you look at the evidence, you cannot promote stuff like that. And I just think for you like what you did with Mito Life before, when you were promoting DHA, and then you come in to new knowledge. Like, to me, I don't know if any other person in the alternative health space that would do that, or has done that. And you came out with that video, like why I was wrong about DHA, I think or something like that on YouTube. And I just think it's so important to be genuine. And to if you actually care about helping people, and you know that what you're selling is not helping people, it's okay to be wrong about stuff, like, it's okay to come in to new information. And to say, You know what, I'm no longer gonna offer this product or I was wrong about this. And I think you're doing that. And I think and I hope, that like other people will do that as well. Maybe they'll catch some of what you're doing and be able to, like, walk away, but it's hard dude, when people are like making so much money. And you know, like you and I know who we're talking about making hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars a year on products they know are damaging people and you just have to watch out like, snakes in the grass, like you mentioned in a recent comment about you know, someone we both know recently and it's true. There's a lot of snakes out there, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 2:13:55
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's - I think that's a big reason why I created the CLF protocol, the Calcification, Lipofuscin and Fibrosis, and I joke about mentally, you know, mentally handicapped population. But when you step back and look at it, just from a - just objective standpoint, just looking at how people think and what they fall for, like that recent documentary about the snake venom, and everyone was getting so emotional about that. And, and then the creators of that documentary, I was not surprised and the lease turned around and promoted their supplements. It was all a sales pitch for their supplements. Zinc and all the normal stuff.

Justin Stellman 2:13:57
Yeah, totally.

Matthew Blackburn 2:14:30
And yeah, just being able to - just being able to see through stuff like that I feel like as a you don't need any lab work or blood tests or full monty. Like that's, that is like the IQ tests in the state of health if you can kind of, you know, discern and see through the BS and the marketing and the people that aren't really sharing from the heart that are just out to ride a wave or, you know, to cash in on the latest thing, you know?

Justin Stellman 2:15:18
Yeah. And it seems like a lot of people are like that I was thinking about Mito Life the other day in terms of like, a supplement company, because like, you look at like, a supplement company that like, I don't know, you go to the health food store, like like, maybe now, for example, like now supplements like, I don't know who's behind that company. I don't know who they are, or who's the guy that started it. I know, generally, they're, they're pretty well trusted by people that I trust. Like, I know, Atom Bergstrom. I think he's mentioned some good things about them. But like, you know, it's, it's really, I think, beneficial to have like, what you have going on, it's like you're behind Mito Life, and you're providing, like you can, people can see what you're doing every day, you're sharing all this stuff, because you're passionate about it. And with a lot of these supplement companies, I think they're just riding the wave. They're not passionate about it. They're passionate about business and making money and nothing wrong with that. But it's just, I don't know, I think there's something cool about what you're doing. I hope more people start doing that, too.

Matthew Blackburn 2:16:17
Oh, I appreciate that, Justin. And yeah, and that's a good point. I always, that's why I like buying from Atom's company, Lifeblood. Or people that I know, you know, Charles Barber, like these small family owned companies, because I know their, their intention and their long term view, like, what I plan on doing to the money with the money that I make, I'm pretty transparent is like pushing the envelope with homesteading. And I don't know, I don't think I've ever told the story on my podcast ever. But what I was in communication with Glenn Calkins, in Southern California, we just smoked a cigar. And we were in the parking lot outside of the cigar lounge. And we're talking about eating animal products, because I think I was vegetarian on the fence with eating muscle meat at that point. And he introduced this idea to me of like, it's so barbaric, the way that we're farming now with, you know, the, you know, cutting a chicken's throats or putting a bolt through a cattles head, or all the methods he's like, "How would you like it if I did that to you?" you know, we're living in the stone age just kind of thing. And he's like, No, you take dry ice, carbon dioxide, and it shuts off the nervous system in the animal. And it's completely painless, and they die, and it doesn't affect the meat at all. And I looked into it, I didn't just take his word for it. And there is legitimate research that that is exactly true. So why aren't we doing it? Well, because people are just comfortable with the way that the system is. And that's, you know, with my growing domes here, and I think there's just - I'm gonna put lodestones in there. And there's - to bump up the voltage and there's things that just aren't being done that should be being done or experimented with, you know, because we should be moving forward, we shouldn't just be trying to go back to how things were done. It's like, there's actually better ways that aren't, you know, lab grown meats and stuff.

Justin Stellman 2:18:20
Yeah, no, I think that's, I think all of that is so important, it should be should be promoted more. And I think that when you see, like influencers that are in the health space, buying Tesla's and getting these fancy cars and stuff, I mean, one part of me says, Okay, there's nothing wrong with like, buying a nice car and stuff like that, but when you're promoting that as your lifestyle, and you know, it's clear that like, business and money and success is your primary concern, and helping people and your own health is maybe a second and third or fourth, you know, concern. I think that, I think it's really easy to start seeing through a lot of these people. Because, you know, if you're really passionate about health, you're going to be creating new products that help people you're going to be doing what you're doing with the homesteading and, and so it really just turns me off when I see these people, like, you know, buying fancy houses, or these cars, and, I mean, I'm all for that, but I don't know, I think there has to be a balance and to me, I could just see right through so I'd rather just, you know, buys your products and other people's products that I know are really into health, you know.

Matthew Blackburn 2:19:28
I appreciate it. Yeah and it's been kind of slow the last, I would say a year with Mito Life with with coming out with new stuff, because just personal life stuff that, you know, some people have gotten glimpses off of my social media, with moving and relationships and stuff, but um, yeah, it's gonna speed up the second half of this year and I'm really excited, like that water filter that my team and I - we're building from scratch. I'm so excited about and it's just, yeah, just getting a few more things in line and just we'll be able to start building them and getting them out there. But I have some really cool exciting ideas for products coming out. We'd like to get into the, the bee product business, and just have, you know, different supplements than pills or different products and pills that we provide.

Justin Stellman 2:20:19
Yeah, that's awesome. Anytime I think of something that I think would be really cool, I always say like, dude, make this on Mito Life. And I remember I said, I'm like, dude, figure - figure out a way to get rid of the polyunsaturated fatty acids. And the vitamin D from a cod liver oil, make a supplement like that, you know? It's pretty funny.

Matthew Blackburn 2:20:42
That'd be awesome. Yeah. I'm working on the Elk Velvet Antler right now, because because I've been taking that for years. And I love elk velvet antler. It's really powerful, and has so many applications. And I've been promoting my good friend David Limacher, and Canada. Vigor. VIGR. He has the best one that I found. But um, yeah, it's a powerful one. So I'm working on that. And US based instead of Canadian based. But um, yeah, I appreciate you sending me all the ideas, because there's - that's the fun part for me is like the R&D and like thinking up new things. Yeah, totally. Totally. No, that's awesome. Yeah, I just, I love what you're doing. And thanks for having me on, man. Oh, I appreciate it, Justin. Yeah. Thank you. And yeah, I'll put the link to where people can check out all your stuff below. What'd you say, extremehealthradio.com is like a good hub to find all your stuff?

Justin Stellman 2:21:40
Yeah, yeah, we have links on there to our Instagram and our YouTube and our Telegram, I'm going to try to get on telegram more because I just see the censorship, you know, kind of going more - I need to spend more time on Telegram, even though the owner of it as part of the WEF forum. But be that as it may, I'm going to try to be on there more. And yeah, we do our shows once a week on Sunday night, they come out and then the other six days of the week, we do our best of episodes. And yeah, so we replay those, I think I just replayed our one together about calcification. So that was super fun. That was awesome.

Matthew Blackburn 2:22:15
I appreciated that. Yeah and you guys have a cool store too, like Biochargeme. And you inspired me to look at the fisher traction, because yeah, the saunders is a lot of work. And I bought one from like the yoga swing people, and it's just hard to use, and it was kind of wonky and not built right. It was the one like you hang from the door. I think I made one post about it. Where it looked like I was hanging myself. Just yeah. Not very well designed.

Justin Stellman 2:22:45
Yeah, the fisher traction is - that thing is awesome. Dude, I'm telling you like, it works really well. And it's like 100 bucks or 150 bucks. It's - it's worth it.

Matthew Blackburn 2:22:58
Awesome. Well, yeah. I really appreciate you sharing the message, Justin, just everything that you and Kate are doing and what - what you stand for and your podcasts. And yeah, just thanks again for coming on the show. This was awesome. We'll have to do it again.

Justin Stellman 2:23:14
For sure, man. Yeah, I totally appreciate it. And, and I think we're doing a deep, I think we started doing a deep dive on the CLF. And I think we did calcification, and I think we need to do lipofuscin and fibrosis as part two and three of that little synergy there.

Matthew Blackburn 2:23:29
Yeah, yeah, we do. It's - I just finished my ebook and I'm just on the fence if I need to add pictures to it or just get it out there, without pictures, but I kept adding to it. And it's so complex with those three things, because I keep finding, not only are all three of them connected, but things like retinol itself actually helps with lipofuscin to prevent it. And so there's so many pieces to the puzzle that just - it keeps going deeper and deeper. But I guess, talking about it to the point where I currently understand it can be helpful.

Justin Stellman 2:24:08
Yeah, yeah. No, that's awesome. I'm looking forward to that. Is that going to be like a paid thing? Or is that going to be a free book?

Matthew Blackburn 2:24:14
Free for sure. Yeah, I just want to get it out there. Yeah, planning. I'm hoping the next few weeks to be nice. I just have to find some cool, cool little graphics to throw up there to help people's understanding because it's, it's pretty dense. Like, I just have tons of tons of information packed in each page.

Justin Stellman 2:24:35
That's awesome. Dude, that's so cool. That's great. Yeah. I can't wait for that to come out and I'm really excited to see all the new products that you're working on Mito Life and it's super fun to watch.

Matthew Blackburn 2:24:44
Yeah, yeah. Thanks, man. You'll love you'll love the drinking water filter. That's been a true labor of love. And yeah, I recently decided a couple days ago that my whole house filter is taking too much electricity with the two pumps because there's basically a pump to pump it throughout the house from the storage tanks and then a pump to pump it through the filters. And being fully off grid. It's not really practical. So I'm actually switching to a basic three stage - I dont know if you've seen those big blue cartridges like usually there's like three of them so just called in-line so there's no POM that's my spring waters just gonna go direct through those. And yeah, my water is already 30 PPM here and it's spring water so I can't complain but because I'm filling my hot tub and bathtub, I like it to be like, super clean. Yeah.

Justin Stellman 2:25:37
So one final question I want to ask you how - so far, how do you like the Lodestone tub? Do you like it?

Matthew Blackburn 2:25:45
Oh, yeah, I'm shooting for - yeah, words can - I actually just found a study yesterday, 1977 by the journal physics of the earth and planetary interiors. I don't know how I found the study. But it was a study on the magnetic properties of lodestones. And it was fascinating. There's actually a picture in the study of the magnetic field like a visual representation of the magnetic field pattern emitting from the Lodestone and it actually looks like a vortex. It's really cool. I guess - I guess these were discovered, I think in the 1600s was when William Gilbert wrote his book on it, D magnet, magnetic? But they were originally used to charge compasses, basically, to like to magnetize compasses. And the study I found showed that the Earth doesn't have enough magnetism to magnetize these - it's made of iron. So it's basically making this iron super magnetic. It said that it has to be lightning strikes. But I guess no one's ever recorded it, recorded it or measured it at the time of it happening. But it's literally a lightning strike that physically hits magnetite and turns it into lodestone a permanent magnet. So it's super wild. Like yeah, it's, it's felt definitely charging. Because it's a source of not only magnetism, but you're getting directly fed electrons. And so I have it, grounded, rod to Earth, and they're all aligned to magnetic north. So they're all in series, and it's all grounded. And it's all actually combined with a - I put magnetite powder in the grout, so it's all cohesive. So in between each stone, it's all conductively connected with magnetite. And I put shungite in there.

Justin Stellman 2:28:02
I always make that joke. We're like, you know, some people will buy Tesla's and some people will like invest in a skid steer and magnetic data. That's awesome.

Matthew Blackburn 2:28:15
Yeah, it's I think this might be the second - I think it's the second in the world. I think Glenn had the first one. I don't know if anyone else has built one. But the hardest part was actually finding the lodestones I barely had enough to finish the tub. The guy on eBay actually ripped me off for a lot of money never sent them. And so if we didn't shave them down to make them flat and just tried to do with the rough stones I could have, I would have only had maybe a quarter of the tub. But uh, yeah, super grateful to have that done because it's, I think it's the most powerful you know, if you want to call it biohacking device you could have, it's completely natural, you know, it's not, you know, a manmade PEMF thing. It is pulsed though it is pulsed magnetism, when I when I hold my digital magnetic meter up to it, it actually pulses anywhere from five milligauss I've seen it pulse up to 180 milligauss. So, it's like a wide range.

Justin Stellman 2:29:15
Wow, that's amazing. I bet that feels so good. So do you do that once a day?

Matthew Blackburn 2:29:21
That's the goal. It ends up being like every couple days but I'll sit in there and read a book or listen to a podcast and what I've been doing is like two gallons of my raw goat milk in there and maybe like half a cup of Shilajit powder and I haven't done magnesium yet just because I have so much milk I can't keep up with get like little over a gallon a day for my one goat and so there's no way I could drink that much. So I end up doing it Cleopatra style, but that I mean talk about transdermal minerals.

Justin Stellman 2:29:44
I was gonna say, that that'd be awesome. Wow. Yeah. Cool, man.

Matthew Blackburn 2:30:12
Yeah, it's yeah, it's fun. I, yeah, I've done a lot of experiments with magnetism. I think you have as well, like, what? I just went from grounding sheet to the Magnetico. Back to grounding. I know a lot of these bio hackers they promote like Earth pulse and different things you could set up in your bed that pulls you while you sleep, but I just questioned the safety of those a little.

Justin Stellman 2:30:35
Yeah, cuz I remember Dr. Kruse talks about how they all produce an RF field. And he said, That's not good. But I don't know. You know, especially like, if you're gonna do like a magnetic matte, like, I have an IMRs mat and you can lay on those for like, 10 or 15 minutes. But if you're going to sleep all night long on something that does that. I don't know. You know, I wouldn't want to do that. It's eight hours. That's a long time.

Matthew Blackburn 2:31:02
Yeah, maybe if you're in like a hotel or something, you know, I do that once or twice a year when I go to a conference or something. And it's always fun to implement every year, something new and seeing if I could like, like the dirty electricity filters were a game changer. When I drove back up here from Colorado. I plugged into that Best Western hotel like probably 10 of them. And I slept better than I've ever slept in a hotel from having all those plugged in.

Justin Stellman 2:31:31
Oh, I know. I know. We have all around our house and like next to the kids beds next to our bed like, man there - yeah, you it's, it's like you can feel it. It's it's powerful. And it's something so for like 30 bucks for one you know, you can get you know, a handful of these and just put them all around the house. It's such a huge game changer. Super easy too

Matthew Blackburn 2:31:54
Oh, yeah. Well, sorry, Justin, we can keep going forever. I should let you go.

Justin Stellman 2:31:59
Yeah, no worries. No worries.

Matthew Blackburn 2:32:05
Yeah, this was awesome. I highly recommend you guys check out his his Extreme Health Radio Academy. You're, you're who inspired me to do my academy and I recently had to half it down from four videos to two just because it's huge time investment. I make like 30 minute videos. So it's in-depth.

Justin Stellman 2:32:22
Yeah, totally. Totally. That's awesome.

Matthew Blackburn 2:32:26
Thanks, Justin. Stick around as we close out the show. Thanks so much. That is all for today's show. That was really fun. I could talk to Justin for hours, I really appreciate his open mind, his passion, his drive to help people. It's really cool what him and Kate are doing over there at Extreme Health Radio. And if you haven't listened to their show, I highly recommend you check it out, especially their episodes with Atom Bergstrom and Morley Robbins. Those are some of my favorite shows that they've done. I get so many people messaging me with health questions every day and it blows my mind that people don't want to put in the time to connect the dots and to figure it out. They just want someone to give them the answer. In my experience with my personal health journey. It's been a spiritual experience to heal myself. And it's always healing yourself. There's no healers, nobody heals you. It's always yourself that's doing the healing. But other people connecting the dots, and most importantly, you connecting the dots from multiple people, you can really start putting the puzzle pieces together and get a broad view of what's going on. My opinion, not only with your health, but with the entire world. The more you balance these vitamin and mineral deficiencies, and get enzyme pathways opened up and activated. That's really what it's about. We're not supposed to get lost in our diagnosis and always be struggling with different symptoms. That's not the natural human state. natural human state is to be in a good mood most of the time to have energy, to have mental clarity to have good memory. Have good sleep. These are all natural byproducts of having vitamin and mineral balance. So definitely subscribe to their podcast. They have a lot of YouTube recordings up there. Sometimes on the podcast app, it's hard to go back and find old shows. I know that's the case for Mito Life Radio. So on YouTube, it's sometimes easier to find their old podcast episodes and definitely check out their store called biochargeme.com, where they have all of their recommended products. And that Fisher traction device, especially the neck one, it's been blowing my mind, it's really awesome. I really appreciate what they're doing to share the message of Mito Life and the CLF protocol. And if you head over to mitolife.co, and purchase any of my products, if you use the code EHR15, you'll save 15% on any of the Mito Life products, and you'll support them over at Extreme Health Radio. If you go to matt-blackburn.com, you can see all of my recommended products. Next week shows actually going to be with the people that created the Annalemma water wand, which is a really fascinating technology that increases the biophoton emissions in the water. So if you enjoy water science and water quality, I think you'll really enjoy that one. Check out the Mito Life Academy that's my private YouTube, where if you want access to more content, more detail of lifestyle stuff, biohacking stuff, supplements, protocols, devices, new things that I'm trying, it's $15 a month, and I recently changed the subscription model because I've been too busy here juggling too much on the homestead, getting set-up, working on growing fruits and vegetables here, which takes a lot of time and energy investment to get that going. So I cut it back from four videos a month to two videos a month, but it is more affordable. So there's only one tier now instead of three and it's $15 a month. And you get access to two private videos and one live Q&A the last day of every month, and actually just recorded and posted the Q&A for June. So if you sign up, you get access to pretty much two years of previous videos and all of the previous live Q&A's. So that's really fun for me, and it's a great way to connect with the community. And stay tuned for a new Mito Life Radio episode released every Friday. Stay supercharged.