Jason Hommel | Mitolife Radio Ep #164

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
copper, iodine, fluoride, milligrams, day, copper deficiency, minerals, book, zinc, fact, boron, copper sulfate, detox, niacin, deplete, morley, supplements, high, body, copper toxicity

Matthew Blackburn 00:18
You're listening to Episode 164, of Mitolife Radio. I'm your host, Matt Blackburn. And today, I'm speaking with Jason Hommel, he wrote the book, the copper revolution, all about the safety and efficacy of supplementing copper. It's a really interesting read, even if you don't plan on supplementing copper, the studies that he has in that book are incredible. A frequent guest on the show, as you know, if you're a listener is Morley Robbins, mineral man. And he really drives the point home that most people are copper deserts. And I think that's true, I think it's obvious that we're dealing with impaired brain function here on this planet. And everyone has their own theory of why that is, it's the GMOs it's the chemtrails, it's whatever it is, the EMFs. But I think when you get down to it, it's really mineral imbalance, and very, very specifically magnesium, and copper deficiency, and then we can get into vitamin deficiencies like retinol, vitamin E, vitamin K2 probably too much vitamin D, which Jason also agrees with. And that's really a lot of it. Because if you get those pieces down, and you're aware that iron deficiency anemia is overblown, and it's really iron overload, if you just get those little pieces down, then you could really move mountains very quickly with your health. So I love that Jason, devoted an entire book to this one mineral that, as he said, is the most misunderstood and slandered mineral. They say, everybody has copper toxicity. That's what all the naturopaths say. But what if it's the opposite? What if people don't have enough copper? And that is Jason's premise for writing the book. So I'll let Jason break it down. Here he is. Jason Hommel. All right, we are here with Jason Hommel. Welcome to the show.

Jason Hommel 03:01
Thanks, Matt. It's gonna be a great show.

Matthew Blackburn 03:03
Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited. I've been studying copper pretty intensely, thanks to our mutual friend, Morley Robbins. And it's one of those things that goes against the grain of the mainstream. I call it alternative health movement, where they're recommending, you know, d3, supplements, ascorbic acid, zinc, iron, fish oil, all the normal things. And when you tell someone that they might want to pay more attention to copper, they're almost emotionally triggered. It's really interesting to watch that.

Jason Hommel 03:44
It is interesting, you run up right up, right up against, oh, my gosh, copper is toxic. Ah, in fact, my wife we've been married now. Three and a half, four years. She said, before she met me she was cutting her copper tablets in half. They were two milligram tablets. And she didn't want to overdo it. And she looks back at that now and sees how silly that was.

Matthew Blackburn 04:08
That's funny. What form of copper Was she taking?

Jason Hommel 04:11
Oh, probably just a copper, bis glycinate or copper chelate of some kind of a typical copper pill that you can find anywhere.

Matthew Blackburn 04:19
Wow. Yeah. When I started to learn about mineral balance, you know, I used to go to people's houses for free back when I lived in Southern California and just look at their supplement cabinet. And the amount of people that take a multivitamin and multimineral is unbelievable. And you look at just like a multi mineral. And people don't realize that there's antagonists, right? So like, I've been trying to beat that into the heads of people that listen to my work. It's like things are connected to each other. Even vitamins and minerals are connected, but there is a connection.

Jason Hommel 04:54
Yeah, the multi minerals and the multivitamins are some of the worst supplements you can take because everything is completely out of Balance. And at the most, you're going to find three milligrams of copper or no copper at all, along with all these other copper antagonists in such large ratios against the copper that you're probably not getting any copper at all, or depleting your copper by taking those pills. Even if your body could digest them. In many cases, you can't, they're just awful upon awful. Also, most of the multivitamins are made by all the big pharmaceutical giants. So there's a huge conflict of interest right there.

Matthew Blackburn 05:31
Yeah, I have goats here. Ones I milk, Saanen goats. And the other day I went and was looking at loose mineral supplements because goats can't do salt licks like a horse, they, they have to have loose minerals. And I was looking at the bags that you could buy in town. And what's interesting is copper was way down the list. And before copper, sometimes there was three, four antagonists, you know, ferrous sulfate, couple different forms of iron, you had zinc. And then coppers way down the line. And I started to get this depressing thought that how much copper is actually in the raw dairy, you know, that's praised recently in the health community as being like a cure all and people are doing raw milk fast and all of these things. Even if it's, you know, from a healthy farm, you really have to raise the animal yourself, or else you're just guessing that there's copper in there.

Jason Hommel 06:31
So I actually have an answer for that. In the studies of my book, one of the cases of copper deficiency happens in humans. If humans, human babies are fed only cow's milk, they often become copper deficient. Human Milk has at least maybe five times more copper in it than cow's milk or more. So, yeah, cow's milk creates copper deficiency in infants.

Matthew Blackburn 06:56
Wow, I wouldn't think that maybe the pasteurization makes a difference. But I know lactoferrin, and ceruloplasmin and raw milk, help to reduce the iron overload. That's something I'd like to talk to you about the iron copper connection, which nobody ever talks about just zinc and copper. But iron is not usually a part of the discussion.

Jason Hommel 07:18
Well, I think Morley talks about the iron copper connection in his book, and I talked about it in my book as well. Iron indeed, blocks copper. But fortunately, copper also blocks iron, but nobody takes enough copper to actually block iron, you actually have to take a lot of copper in order to begin to make a dent in the iron, I have tried to determine how much iron we get in our normal iron fortified diets. And some people suggest we get up to 45 milligrams of iron. And I think you have probably have to take more than that in copper just to make a dent in it. So I've been taking, you know 70 To 100 milligrams of copper a day for the last year, I've been on 30 milligrams a day of copper for the last four years, to my own experience completely refutes the notions of copper being toxic at two to three milligrams. And I still haven't completely blocked my iron yet. I have read a case, though, in the literature where a man took 2000 milligrams of copper every day for four months and finally developed anemia. So it might take that much copper to block the iron where it begins to be a problem. And I certainly don't advocate taking anywhere near those doses, or at least not yet.

Matthew Blackburn 08:37
Wow. So you said 30 milligrams, and then more recently, was it 75 milligrams a day?

Jason Hommel 08:43
Yeah, more recently 70 to 100 milligrams a day, probably just over half of that as topical application. So maybe between 40 to 50 milligrams orally like in my coffee or drinks throughout the day. So yeah,

Matthew Blackburn 08:59
interesting. Yeah, I have a friend that helps me out here on the homestead and he was over here a couple days ago and I was talking about copper with them. I almost always do bring it up. And he actually wears one of those copper bracelets. And he said am I getting copper with this and he held up his arm and I said well as long as you have retinol coming in, I think that's safe. Do you agree with that?

09:24
Um, I don't think you can overdose on copper from a copper bracelet. It's going to turn your skin green in the spot and make you a little uncomfortable there maybe after a while because it's too much copper in that one little location. It might you might get a little reverse arthritis from so much copper or something but I apply copper you know everywhere on my skin all over and all I've gotten is healthier and healthier joints stronger and stronger joints. I feel excellent in the gym and Yeah, the, you know, getting back to your iron. Yeah, there's iron indeed blocks copper. And if most people are getting, say 40 milligrams of iron, and essentially no copper. For the most people, their iron is blocking the copper. But it's not just iron, it's also fluoride. And almost nobody talks about fluoride blocking copper. So in my book, one of the big things I say is like, the average person has 2600 milligrams of fluoride in their bodies. And only 70 milligrams of copper, and the fluoride is blocking the copper. And the average person has 4400 milligrams of iron in their bodies, or more can be even 10 times or more, as Morley said, because it could be locked away inside the cells. So, and only 72 milligrams to maybe 200 milligrams of copper in the average person. In fact, if those two are bad, and those two are blocking copper, we actually have, the average person has five neurotoxins in their body, at levels greater than the copper in their body. Those five neurotoxins are iron to excess the fluoride, the bromide which is another halogen, which also those block iodine, and the other two are lead, and aluminum, we have more lead and more aluminum in our bodies than copper. So my point is that nobody has any business, even imagining the possibility of copper toxicity until they first deal with all of those other known neurotoxins. And in almost every case of copper toxicity, they ignore all those other neurotoxins that are in our bodies, and they all focus on the copper, which is a fraudulent way to go about it, because they don't even know about or even understand that those other things are in their bodies at higher concentrations. So that's a hallmark of fraud to leave out a huge topic like that. Yeah,

Matthew Blackburn 11:52
Yeah, that's a good point. And not a lot of people are filtering their drinking water, let alone their bathing water. I liked that you brought up aluminum because that's actually a component of lipofuscin that pigment that I talked a lot about the combines with iron, estrogen and highly unsaturated fats. But uh, yeah, I've heard melted cheese is loaded with aluminum and anytime you eat out processed food you're just gonna get it you can't avoid aluminum.

12:24
Yep, pancakes have aluminum bread products have aluminum. It's It's wild. Antacids have aluminum. The vaccines have aluminum and mercury, by the way, still, they didn't take that out. But there are a lot of exposures, you know, I am old enough to know that they used to put lead in gasoline. So we'd get that in the air we breathe.

Matthew Blackburn 12:45
And feminine products things like lipstick had lead to

12:49
Oh, yes, that's right. You know, there's this thing going around vitiligo. If you look it up, women will develop white patches on their skin right around the eye and mouth area. Why? Because they're applying toxic makeup that is depleting them of copper. And it's the copper that we need to create the color in the skin. So this is why vitiligo shows up. Right where women apply their lipstick.

Matthew Blackburn 13:14
Wow. So, So backing up a little bit let's get into how you got into studying copper. Like how did you get into studying it? And when?

Jason Hommel 13:28
That's a good question. I will go all the way back to business traumas, which led to alcoholism, which then led to rehab. And then a year out of rehab. I still had horrible arthritis, and I wasn't getting better. And I thought for sure, by cutting alcohol out of my diet, I would get healthier, but it was worse. And I was like what in the devil is going on? Why am I in such horrible pain. So I had to figure that out. And that led me to green smoothies and stretching, which helped tremendously. And it got me about 90% cured of my arthritis pain. But I wanted to make sure that overdoing one too much of one thing wasn't going to hurt me. And so I looked up the drawbacks of greens. I wanted to look at both sides of the story and people were talking about how oxalates could be bad for you and could cause kidney stones and how greens are chelating and could block iodine and could block other minerals. And so after about three years on the green smoothie kick and doing stretching and stuff, I developed all the signs of demineralization dehydration, constipation, weakness. So I started adding in a basic multi mineral pill and I thought "Hey, I'll be doing great here. In fact, I'll balance it with maybe taking a little bit of zinc and a little bit of copper on occasion to probably be okay". I then developed just a little bit of exhaustion in my workouts, and then I went and saw a homeopath and I had went for blood testing for minerals, and as well as toxins. And my profile, this was in 2015. December, my profile came back high iron, low copper, lowest in zinc, high in selenium, and low testosterone. And I'm like, wait a second, I'm working out what's going on here, I started taking zinc immediately. Because I had to fix the low Zinc, of course, not knowing that I was making my copper levels worse. Zinc made me feel fantastic. I fixed a lot of problems. I took a little bit more copper a little bit more regularly than I had before. I was no longer as scared of it, because clearly I need more. And about a month later, I was feeling so good on those minerals. I said, "what other micro minerals can I take?" I started, I knew about iodine. I just had never taken it before. But I knew that the Greens could have lowered it. So I took iodine and it changed my life, changed my life. Iodine is the best thing. Or at least it was for me, because greens could block iodine. So literally, on the first drop of iodine, I was having some suicidal thoughts before, which also could be from low copper. And my suicidal thoughts, which were almost continuous, dropped to nothing from my first drop of iodine, I could consider all my thoughts of trauma without getting mad, which was incredible, increased brain control. So I was just high iodine, high iodine, high iodine, this is the best thing. And then I after a while I was doing some consulting with a woman who was concerned about a bleeding disorder. And she wanted to know why I didn't have any bleeding for an entire year. And I said well might be because I've been taking copper at three to nine milligrams and and she pointed out that yes, copper stops bleeding. I did not know that about copper. But I was just taking it from my copper deficiency, right. And her problem was that she didn't want to look at the side effects of her medications. And one of her medications side effects was bleeding. So when we're told to take a medication for life, we kind of want to put our head in the sand and that's what she did. So it's very important not to put your head in the sand right? And ignore information. So I had a renewed appreciation for my copper because it helped me stop lifelong nosebleeds as well. But upon thinking about it, I decided to experiment because I really didn't like the copper. I mean, I really don't like having to supplement but it's better than being deficient. So I noticed that it was always making me a little nauseated. And I had also recently learned that vitamin D was used as rat poison and we shouldn't be taking vitamin D. So I had stopped the vitamin D and I'm like, well, let's just see if I can stop copper. Let's just trust my body's instinct. It's always making me nauseated, I'm sick of it. I'm just gonna stop taking it. I think I fell into about an eight month brain fog of just going through life and getting worse in various ways.Gosh, this was brings us all the way up to about 2017 or so. And then I find my way back to copper because I was getting nosebleeds. Again, I was excessively sweating, I had fainted once and hit the ground. That's a symptom of copper deficiency. I wasn't writing very much and other symptom of copper deficiency very tired after workouts I couldn't recover as well. There were a few more things like little joint pains here and there that wouldn't go away like nagging neck pain and things. So anyways I found my way back to copper, really liked it. And this time, I wanted to take more than 10 milligrams a day because I knew it was so powerful and I also realized very quickly that 10 milligrams, 10 milligrams of copper, I still had some copper deficiency symptoms. And so I decided to research further on why we're not supposed to take more than 10 Where's this tolerable upper limit come from? What's the basis for it? And I wanted to really know at what levels copper is toxic and I couldn't find satisfactory answers to any of it, what I found was that at 10 causes no liver damage well that wasn't a satisfactory answer to me I want the some liver damage level damage right because I was an alcoholic and I can tolerate some liver damage what's the some liver damage level? Right I mean, we all take aspirin and Tylenol that all creates liver damage even one so what's the, some Liver, what's a little bit of liver damage level? And you can't find the answer to that question because nobody's ever studied, giving people copper, enough until the point where some liver damage develops, that's never been done. It's never been done in a single study ever. The most it's ever been done is they've given people up to 20 milligrams of copper, and the subjects are perfectly healthy. So where does the idea of liver damage come from? Why do they think that that is what needs to be avoided? That's another great question. They got it from somewhere. And the answer is that when when people in India take 20,000 milligrams of copper to kill themselves, okay? The way they often die, not always, but the way they die. And it's only 15% of the time, they die when they take 20,000 milligrams and doses where they're intending to kill themselves. Sometimes it's liver damage, and other times it's kidney damage. And this is because maybe they're overloading their detox organs with so much detoxifying copper. Because not even that much copper is really all that deadly. Sometimes people have even survived doses 10 times higher than that 200,000 milligrams of copper, and people have still survived. So that's crazy. So where's the some liver damage level, and you keep on reading and keep on reading. And I found that finally, the some liver damage level is because some animals can develop liver damage at the endpoint. Great, what's the endpoint, you follow it up. And it's when they give animals 5000 milligrams a day, they will sometimes get overpowered, and then develop liver damage. So really, that's the endpoint of liver damage the animals at 5000, though? That shows how safe copper is, it doesn't say that we're going to get liver damage at 11 milligrams, or 20, or 30, or 40. They've just never studied it. And in fact, if you look at the government's document, where they came up with the 10, they said we should really study higher levels of copper to determine, you know what we could really, and they've never done it since 1993, which is now 28 years, they've never done further studies. So oh, there's a couple other little examples about the liver damage. A couple other I have to address these two. This is a very long answer your question Matt, i know you asked me one question. We're getting a lot of topics here. And I know you have questions. So two more subjects because I don't want to oversimplify there. They have one guy. In one case study where the headline is, a man who took copper caused liver damage at 30 milligrams? Well, first of all, you can't determine causation from a case study. So therefore, we know that that title is a lie. Anybody who's taken first year statistics knows you cannot determine causation from a single case study. In fact, they tell us all, they tell us all this all the time, when it comes to vaccine damage "But that case study is not applicable". Well, then I'm sorry, but there's vaccine damage of 100s of 1000s of case studies now so. And besides Hey, the, the vaccine damage, that's a before and after, I don't want to get into that. Let's I'm gonna skip that. Sorry, don't mean, I didn't even go there. The other liver damage thats seen is in children in India who drink milk out of copper pots that's boiled by their mothers. That's a very weird situation, because first of all, they're likely impoverished. Second of all, if they're boiling the milk, it could be that they're feeding their kids spoiled milk for cheap or something. And it's thus completely inexplicable, because it could have super high bacterial counts, and then they kill the bacteria off, and they're eating dead bacteria. And that could be causing the liver damage. And furthermore, they're only getting maybe three milligrams of copper in those diets from the copper pot. So it's not even enough copper to cause liver damage. So we get to toss that one out, too. So you asked me, How did I get into this? I got into it, because there's no evidence that we shouldn't be taking high copper, and I feel great when I take copper! So that's how I got into it.

Matthew Blackburn 23:58
I love it. Yeah, we had kind of a parallel path. Because I was raw vegan, really strict for about four years. And it was green juicing at home, yeah. Did you ever get into the green juicing? Because I know that's like lighter than the smoothies. That's what I was mainly into.

Jason Hommel 24:25
Yeah, I liked the juicing, but it was just too expensive at $10 A juice.

Matthew Blackburn 24:30
Yeah, I was working like minimum wage jobs and I was like putting half my paycheck into buying organic produce to juice. I think I was drinking juice four to five days a week, for a couple of years homemade, which was like another job. But what you said really resonated where you said you fainted and hit the ground because I remember in my vegetarian and vegan days, I was so airy that I think I ran red lights a few times. was just a reckless driver, you know, would knock into stuff. And I looked back and wow, that was probably copper deficiency. I mean, because I was slamming greens nonstop every day.

25:13
Well it could be iodine deficiency too and a combination of other minerals

Matthew Blackburn 25:18
Yeah, and B vitamins and who knows? Exactly. Yeah. And you said the brain fog. That's actually why I got into health. So I was tired of having brain fog. And so that sent me on this whole journey. And it's led to copper, which is pretty cool, because I feel like that's kind of the the ultimate brain de fogger, right?

25:44
I think iodine and copper and maybe B 12. All three of those are very, very powerful, nerve healers and nerve regenerators. That get our brains going again. Yes.

Matthew Blackburn 25:56
Hmm. Yeah, yeah, the iodine thing it's interesting because I used to do the Lugol's iodine and then I switched a nascent, and I was just putting it on my wrist, and I never felt anything. And I think just for a very short time, I was putting a drop in a shot glass of water. So you just take it, you take it orally?

26:19
So I'm familiar with the protocol and from the iodine doctors, and I don't think you were taking enough iodine for it to have much of an effect. Or maybe you weren't severely deficient like I had gotten. But the the iodine doctors, they recommend 50 milligrams of iodine. They say that it takes a year at 12 milligrams to reach iodine sufficiency, which is defined as whether or not a person will urinate 90% of the iodine intake and the body will no longer hold on to it like like an iodine deficient person will hold on to 50% of the iodine initially taken, whereas somebody who has sufficient will excrete 90% of it. So they look at that 90% excretion as as evidence of iodine sufficiency. It either takes one year at 12 milligrams, or it takes three months at 50 milligrams to achieve achieve iodine sufficiency levels where you'll excrete most of it, which is considered a good thing because then your body is no longer starved for it and holding on to it. And there's very good reasons for taking lots of iodine because it acts as a wonderful detoxer of five or six toxic heavy metals, including fluoride and mercury and aluminum and arsenic and lead and a bunch of them. So just for the detoxification effects alone, is very good, because fluoride it's a lodging in the thyroid gland and the iodine feeds the thyroid gland, basically by eliminating fluoride improves our health in so many ways. Iodine itself also acts as an anti cancer agent. I mean, there's a list of 180 health conditions caused just by fluoride toxicity and iodine deficiency. So when you get the iodine in, oh, and it also helps to detoxify bromide that other one I which I mentioned earlier. So yeah, I just don't think you were taking enough to get a huge effect. But I realized that the iodine was causing a copper deficiency in me. And I found later through other studies that copper comes out in the sweat and iodine helps you sweat more. And a couple people have complained that the high iodine protocol has caused them to get vitiligo, which is low melanin formation in the skin, which we need copper for that. So there's another indication that iodine sort of blocks copper at those high levels, which could explain why I significantly benefited from resuming my copper supplementation at higher levels than before. Also, I take several other nutrients that are caught also be blocking copper, because I like vitamin C. I like zinc because I was zinc deficient. As I said, I also take MSM, sulfur from my joints, and MSM. Sulfur also blocks copper. So you know, it's almost like the more minerals you take, and the healthier you want to be, the more you're likely you are to be copper deficient because a lot of those vitamins and minerals block copper.

Matthew Blackburn 29:19
Wow. So you said iodine one year at 12 milligrams a day brings it back and then you said six months was it 50?

29:30
Three months at 50 milligrams achieves it sufficiently, you're supposed to take it with Selenium and there's a whole protocol there. But in their protocol, they neglect both zinc and they neglect copper. So Morley and I've had a discussion about that. Why didn't the iodine doctors mentioned copper? He speculates it could be that because they didn't want to lose their licenses. I don't, I don't really know. But he has spoken to them and I want one of the first articles I wrote was copper the missing nutrient on the high iodine protocol, send it to two of the iodine doctors. I've never heard from them. But it could be because they're just too busy. You know, never really know.

Matthew Blackburn 30:10
Yeah. So why can't we get, I'm sure listeners are thinking this question. Why can't we get iodine from our food? Because isn't it in oysters? I guess it's a small percentage of people eating those and I think potatoes and what are some other foods that have it?

30:28
So one of the main sources of iodine would be seaweed. And if you were to seaweed salad every day like the Japanese do, this is kind of how the iodine doctors get to their 12 milligrams. The Japanese on average, get about 12 milligrams by eating a seaweed salad every day. Because I don't want to eat a seaweed salad every day then, if that's the only way you're gonna get it, the only alternative way would be a Lugol's iodine formula supplementation and Lugol's has been around 150 years before it fell out of favor around 1945 when they began putting fluoride in our water. So a good reason to have fluoride or have iodine is because we live in a world where the water is fluoridated. In the United States, Europe, not so much. But, you know, it's, that's not the only toxin we're exposed to. Bromine is in the couch, I'm probably sitting on here in my hotel. It's in carpets, it's in pajamas, it's in flame retardant stuff. And it's like the third most prevalent toxin in the average person's body. So to get those toxins out, we have to take high iodine because we don't live in a natural pristine world with no toxins. If we travel, if we're going from city water to city water, and we're eating out and drinking water that other people serve us are eating rice that they made and their pots cooked with their fluroidated water. I'm continually getting exposed to fluoride. The only way to solve it is with iodine exposure. And copper, copper also detoxes fluoride. And so it is boron and other favorite mineral of mine also detoxes fluoride. So we've got to take the, the minerals that high enough doses to work. If the average person's body has 2600 milligrams of fluoride, it's not easy to get this stuff out.

Matthew Blackburn 32:18
Wow. Yeah, I rarely travel for that reason. Just because it's a lot of work. I mean, I just do a lot of things to change the hotel and I'll put in a shower filter and stuff. But even with the shower filter, the basic shower filters, you know, your $50 ones, whatever, it's not going to remove the fluoride, let alone the industrial grade fluoride, which is the hydrofluorosilicic acid. So, yeah, I think it's smart. If you travel a lot, or like you said, all those situations, take things that kind of buffer that exposure, I think we forget how much we absorbed through our skin, right?

33:01
Well, and it's not just those obvious toxins, there are a lot of unobvious toxins, if that's the word to use, you know, they say that the average baby now was born with 300 to 600 different toxins, chemical toxins in their system, that are just everywhere, in the clothes that we wear ,you know, so many different products. It's in air, it's in the public waters. You know, it's not just fluoride in the water system. It's everything else. You know, they feed fluoride to chickens. If you eat chicken meat that's processed by Tyson Foods. So public water supply is 0.7 parts per million fluoride chicken feed is 130 parts per million fluoride.

Matthew Blackburn 33:46
Wow. Geez. Yeah, I'm grateful to live somewhere more rural, because there's a lot of iron in it. I know that my first Idaho house it had two 20 inch, I had a whole house filter and two big blue 20 inch sediment filters. Were completely caked around from the iron. And I know that's a big issue in rural areas. So yeah, we still have issues even if you move out of the city. It's just different kinds of issues.But wild Yeah, boron. That's that's one that Morley, I think recommends in his protocol. And what is it it's like three milligrams a day doesn't. I guess that's the average serving size of your boron supplements.

Jason Hommel 34:36
So one of the large boron advocates in the 60s he recommended 20 milligrams, but your your average, but he would cycle on and off because it would cause him a little bit of anxiety. But so he would cycle say 20 milligrams a day of boron for a couple of weeks, and then no boron for a couple of weeks. And so I did that for a while. They say that the soil that the average person in Israel has no arthritis. And they get about eight to 11 milligrams of boron a day in their, in their diets from their soils in their plants. In the United States, we get about one to three milligrams of boron and most boron supplements are sold as three milligram pills. And we have about 30% incidence of arthritis here, but also we have the fluoridated water and fluoride, fluoride causes arthritis. In Jamaica they have very low boron soils in the country, some of the lowest boron soils in the world, and almost everybody has, 70%, have arthritis in Jamaica, it's really bad. So boron is a good big anti arthritis supplement. And I've experimented for a while I just took 100 milligrams a day for longest time, and I'm back down to about 50 milligrams a day. Anyways.

Matthew Blackburn 35:53
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, I remember, there was a study called nothing boring about boron, just like a PubMed study, it's pretty interesting read. And I know it's required for testosterone production, right. And a lot of things like holding on to magnesium

Jason Hommel 36:13
It's thought to be required for testosterone production and makes sense that it would be because fluoride kills testosterone production. So just in removing fluoride alone, you're probably going to get at least some boost of testosterone, I think they've had trouble replicating that study. And yes, it helps us to hold on to magnesium and calcium, and if it regulates those better, and magnesium also gives us a slight testosterone boost. But that's, I think, harder to show also.

Matthew Blackburn 36:45
Did you ever look into lithium? I think I found it through John Gray, kind of like the relationship coach guy years ago, and I was experimenting with lithium orotate. This was probably four years ago or so. And that's when you have to be really careful because they use lithium is for bipolar meds, right? Like a song about it. But that, you know, the natural form, it does act as an antidepressants, its involved in energy production, but I know too much of it in drinking water makes people crazy.

Jason Hommel 37:26
Interesting. Yes. So I've experimented with lithium orotate. I took it on and off for a few days, I didn't like it, I felt like it just buzzed my brain wrongly, I read that you're not supposed to take it while you're on iodine. I'm like, Yeah, I don't really. I don't really follow that data there. So I just decided to experiment, you know, that when you take it yourself at five milligram dose is very low dose compared to the lithium salts they give to bipolar people. Again, I just didn't like it. I didn't feel like it was doing me any good. So I think sometimes, people try to break new ground and new minerals, because they want to discover the next iodine. But things don't live up to the hype. I think lithium is probably one of those.

Matthew Blackburn 38:15
Yeah, yeah, I was pulsing it. I don't know if it was safe. And this is absolutely not medical advice or recommended. But I feel like I was taking like 50-60 milligrams a day. And I was pulsing it kind of like the boron thing you're talking about for a week here week there. And I did feel a lift it. It seemed like a stress buffer. But I think it's so individual, right? And this is kind of a good lead into, well, how do I know I'm deficient? What if I have too much copper or too much iodine or too much boron? I know a lot of people are getting like htma tests, hair tissue mineral analysis, and you have the full monty iron panel. And I hear that these aren't full pictures, right? They're just kind of like snapshots and they're not the whole picture. It's kind of hard to get an accurate breakdown of your mineral status, isn't it?

Jason Hommel 39:12
It is, so in my book, I've quoted studies where they have shown that well, so copper in the blood, copper blood testing, of course, is going to be far more reliable than in the hair. I think, first of all, very little copper comes out in the hair, that they can accurately measure amount of copper in the blood. But just because the person's copper in the blood is high does not mean that a person is actually high in copper, because in pregnancy, that amount of copper in the blood will double. So it goes up 100% And that's because baby needs copper to grow and thrive. So, in fact, babies have five to 10 times more copper per pound in their bodies than adults do. And they go through enormous fast growth and that's one of the things copper does It's important for growth and it's important for the growth of nerves. And baby's brain is developing. So, you know, copper deficient babies, they don't thrive, in copper deficient moms, you've got more miscarriages. So if copper is doubled in the blood in pregnancy, okay, and for growth, you can't just say copper in the blood being high is therefore evidence of toxicity, because, you know, if I were if I were to be a top copper toxic advocate, I would have to say nonsense stuff like, well, since all babies are born, copper toxic, this is why they can't speak hah. It makes no sense. Okay? I mean, babies have five to 10 times more top more copper, it's because they learn languages faster than we do. Let's be honest, right? I mean, babies are smart. And look, if I if I had to take more than 10 milligrams of copper in order to feel right, I searched the safety diligently and I know that copper toxicity starts at 20,000 milligrams, so unless you're going around, and eating about 20 pounds of liver every single day, then you're probably not copper toxic. In fact, you couldn't get copper toxic by eating the number one most copper, heavy food. If that's all you ate, you still wouldn't be copper toxic. So therefore, anybody who thinks they're copper toxic, has simply bought into the lies of the hair tissue mineral analysis people, who preach that, and I understand where it comes from. And I can I can kind of say that, where the evidence comes from, and that's, you know, and I went over and refuted a few of those, but in others that you know, most people get nauseated on copper at three to four milligrams. So people look at the nausea as proof of copper toxicity. And it's not proof of copper toxicity, because when we take copper, and if it's binding with fluoride, which it does, this is why, this is how copper enters our drinking water through fluoridated water. Fluoride binds to copper. So when fluoride water runs through copper pipes, it brings the copper along. So that as a source of copper gives rise to many myths like Oh, copper, one is toxic, or copper two is toxic, or whatever it's or metallic copper is toxic. But if you go and you look up, colloidal copper, or ionic copper, and you just read the reviews on Amazon, people rave about the stuff because it's great. You know, metallic copper is not dangerous. It's the fluoride that is dangerous. And so if we, if most people have 2600 milligrams of fluoride in their body, and then they put in three milligrams of copper thinking they're gonna get healthy, excuse me, you barely begun, barely begun to beginning make a dent of detoxing fluoride. And as fluoride rushes to the stomach within 10 minutes to bind to the copper, you're gonna have fluoride in your stomach. You know, what causes nausea? Fluoride causes nausea. So, so it's not necessarily evidence of of copper toxicity, just because you're getting a little bit of nausea at the beginning stages of fluoride detox, I had to go through fluoride detox, when I first started boron, I had to go through fluoride detox when I first started iodine because they all detox fluoride a little bit differently, they all have a little bit different affinity for holding on to it and can carry it further or lesser in the body before it lets go of it and stuff like that. So it takes an enormous amount of diligent effort to take a lot of iodine, a lot of boron and a lot of copper, to begin to detox, the horrors of fluoride and all that it's doing in us.

Matthew Blackburn 43:43
That was awesome. So I want to kind of circle back. You know, Morleys whole thing is retinol, and he says pretty much everyone's retinol deficient and you need retinol to load I think it's six to eight copper atoms into ceruloplasmin. Do you think? Like my theory, and what I've gathered from Morley, is like the quote "copper toxicity" is caused largely by just a vitamin A deficiency because if there's not enough retinol to load it into that transport protein, then we have a problem. Do you think retinol deficiency is common?

Jason Hommel 44:21
I'm not exactly sure how common vitamin A deficiency is. I haven't looked into that too much. But I would say that 99.9% of Americans are woefully copper deficient. Because most Americans, they only get 0.6 milligrams of copper and have very little copper in their bodies, and they have all these other toxins. So it's almost impossible to be copper toxic. So what is this copper toxic that people are talking about? What is it? It's a disruption of copper metabolism or a failure of copper to metabolize or they're detecting high copper in tissues where the body's not using it or can ;ow ceruloplasmin, which could be the vitamin A deficiency there, but here's the thing. Copper also should stimulate ceruloplasmin production, copper stimulates the ATP seven B gene which helps to make ceruloplasmin and vitamin A is not the only thing that helps make ceruloplasmin,intense exercise helps make ceruloplasmin, as you've discovered, there's ceruloplasmin in milk. And there's, you know, babies need copper, and it is in human breast milk so, you know, milk should be a good source of copper, but it's not, because animals like us are also deficient, we're living on a copper deficient planet. And our copper deficiency is made worse by all these other things. So I looked at the, you know, the average infant should be getting roughly five, the equivalent of the adult equivalent of five milligrams of copper a day, from a copper, typically copper deficient, mother. So how much copper would an infant get from a copper sufficient mother? We really don't know what copper sufficiency is, because nobody's ever even done any studies to determine the optimal amounts of copper for human nutrition. Those studies don't exist and have never been done. The closest that we got is from Oliveraz(?) who determined that 20 milligrams of copper a day is not toxic and causes no harm. And he studied a wide array of liver tests to determine if it could cause harm, and there was no harm in about 800 subjects over several months. So again, that refutes copper toxicity. So why do they have these ideas of copper toxicity, again, from nausea from tap water that's got fluoride, or it could be zinc deficiency? They look at ratios. And if zinc is low, then they determine that, oh, copper must have gotten the zinc low. Well, no zinc could have gotten low from lead or aluminum or fluoride or lack of supplementation. And then the other question is, how is it that people get better or slightly better, perhaps, from taking a lot of vitamin C and zinc,which is gonna lower their copper? This is a very hard question that I should expect to be to have an answer to. And I have one, I have one! And the answer is that vitamin C and zinc are good in their own right. And in fact, each of them are very powerful detoxes just like copper is vitamin C at high levels can be used to detoxify snakebites, and a wide array of toxins, and zinc is a wonderful detoxer zinc and copper work together along a similar pathway to create Metallothionein. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly, I'll just say a metallo enzyme. Okay. I'm a metallo enzyme that detoxifies all of the other heavy metals, including mercury and lead and aluminum. So, you know, everybody's into detoxing, detoxing, detoxing, but nobody's into copper, not realizing that copper is a super powerful, detoxifying mineral because both copper and zinc will boost our Metallo enzymes. In fact, when they try to kill pigs or animals by giving them so much copper that'll kill them. What they've discovered is that if they pulsed dose the amount of copper that they give them, and they give them time to adjust to higher and higher amounts, they can survive all the way up to 5000 milligrams of copper per day on a long term basis. Probably because they boost their metallo proteins from metallo enzymes that detoxify not just the other toxins, but copper itself. So they get more efficient at excreting the copper. So anyone who's like "Oh, my copper, copper, I got too much copper, my system" well take more copper,take more zinc and your body will make more metallo enzymes and you'll be able to excrete it like a normal person. In fact, one of the arguments against copper toxicity would be we excrete almost all of it. In fact, they've done studies and they show that at one milligrams, we absorb half a milligram. And at 10 milligrams, we only absorb one milligram Well, in other words, we're excreting 90% of it at 10 milligrams, well excuse me for excreting almost all of it, how's it going to build up and be toxic, they're deficient, and they don't have the capacity to metabolize their copper. That's the problem. And of course, what really throws a monkey wrench into the copper metabolism? Too much iron, too much fluoride, as we've gone over. So the answer is copper itself, it fixes the problems with copper these copper toxic people they just need to take more copper, and they fix the problem. I know it sounds a little crazy when I say that but that's how it works. In fact there's very specifically, very specifically, I want to get to the studies they've shown, that people who have high copper in the blood but have copper deficiency symptoms, one of which is heart disease. They give them copper, copper in the blood goes initially higher still, and then finally the tissue is getting enough copper, and Then finally, the copper levels in the blood can come down while the tissue gets enough, and then they start reversing conditions of heart disease. In fact, copper is so strongly associated with heart disease, there are up to 80 similar biomarkers of copper deficiency in animals and heart disease in humans at similarity similarities, that's crazy. I'll go through a few of them, that is: high cholesterol, high calcium, cholesterol and the calcium blocking the arteries, weak collagen formation in the heart itself, valves that aren't working due to low collagen all sorts of hormones out of balance. This is amazing. Okay, we have been told our whole lives cholesterol in the heart is bad cholesterol is going to kill us. Well, what is cholesterol? Chole-sterol? It's a steroid. What have we been told our whole lives is good for us. Testosterone, testosterone builds muscles well the body with copper will convert the bad cholesterol that's lining the arteries or heart, revert, convert it into testosterone to make our muscles stronger, including the heart. I mean, copper fixes so many problems when you look into it. It's amazing.

Matthew Blackburn 51:16
That's fascinating stuff. I loved all that. Yeah, a person I just interviewed Paris Hodges. She's gone through Morleys program we were talking a little bit about copper and zinc. And she had an interesting point. Going back to what what you said a few minutes ago, how zinc is important, too. She said zinc jumps in when copper is deficient. And I never thought of that before, like to help mitigate some of the oxidative stress. So actually having low copper could deplete your zinc, because it's jumping in to do all these functions. I thought that was kind of interesting.

Jason Hommel 51:53
We need both of them. It's in similar ratios. I, I'm often trying to determine the optimal ratio, but I pay attention to it back and forth. I am not just a high copper one trick pony guy. I know. But my subtitle of my book is what is the subtitle? Healing with minerals. So, you know, the copper revolution healing with minerals. So like I have mentioned many minerals in this book, and I'm always paying attention to the zinc. And for me, I feel that if I don't have enough zinc, I don't sleep quite as soundly. It's slightly, a little bit of insomnia will kick in, or, oh, there are some other things, but i Those are personal. But zinc, I'll say zinc boosts testosterone when you can feel that.

Matthew Blackburn 52:41
Yeah, and you posted an interesting thing in your Facebook group. I think it was yesterday about oysters, because those are pushed pretty heavily and promoted in the metabolic health community. And I feel great when I you know, slonk down, you know, a dozen raw oysters or whatever. But it might not be something daily you want to do, because what you posted is that they're higher in zinc than copper. Is that right?

Jason Hommel 53:08
So there's about 18 times more, 15-18 times more, zinc than in copper in oysters. And what's interesting about oysters, is that in my book, I said look they're the second highest copper food out there, the highest is liver livers. 64 milligrams per pound, and nobody ever eats a pound of oysters, but I like to keep my units similar so you can compare. There's roughly 30 milligrams of copper per pound in oysters. But again, I know nobody eats a pound, but relatively speaking, you're getting half the copper, however, yes. So the study I posted in my group was a woman who, as case study, a woman who took oysters every day for five years, developed severe copper deficiency to the point where her nerves were demyelinating. So something copper does it helps build the myelin sheath around her nerves are nerves work better. So you can think faster, have deeper, better insights, all the rest. So even oysters are the second highest copper food out there, the amount of copper is negligible because it's so overpowered by the zinc, which is important because it how much zinc is it's 15 to one or 18 to one yet what about all these zinc copper ratio advocates say they all say 15 one. So in other words, the zinc to copper ratio advocates are really advocating for copper deficiency, because that's the result of what they advocate. Because I think Morley pointed this out, and I haven't quite been able to confirm it yet. But he said that the Metallo enzyme has a preferential desire to kick copper out first before zinc, 1000 to one, it will deplete copper over zinc, the Metalla enzymes. So that to me, says that again, copper is almost impossible for us to become toxic in it, because it's just going to get washed right out with the zinc especially even if we consume them one to one The copper will be depleted before your zinc will be. So copper is not the one you need to fear. it's the way the body works proves over and over again and again and again. The copper is far more safe than just about anything else. In fact, oh, this brings me another point I just learned in my group that B6 acts as a neurotoxin at high levels, and what are those high levels perhaps as low as 1000 milligrams? So if copper is toxic at 20,000 milligrams, is it really crazy that I'm advocating say 50 milligrams of copper when copper is toxic at 20,000 milligrams? B6 is toxic at 1000 milligrams,or less even, some people say as little as 100? So why, why are we often taking 50 milligrams of B6 in our B vitamin? That's an important question. If if B6 is toxic at 100 milligrams, why are we taking 50 milligrams of B6 in our B vitamins, this is very dangerous. We shouldn't be doing this. And in fact, it's proof of how safe copper is relatively speaking. I mean, we shouldn't be taking more than one milligram of B6 ever. It's so dangerous, relatively speaking, where's the consistency in the supplement industry? It doesn't exist. So this brings me to the fact that the original copper toxic advocates, one of the guy's name was Carl Pfeiffer. He worked for the CIA, mind control. You can look them up on Wikipedia. It's not even hidden. He did CIA mind control experiments with LSD. And his associate was Abram Hoffer. Abram Hoffer was big into niacin, which blocks copper and Abram Hoffer was the father of orthomolecular Institute run to this very day by the high vitamin C advocates, which also block copper. So is it a big CIA mind control game to try to prevent us from all from having copper? It could very well be the case.

Matthew Blackburn 56:59
That's incredible. Wow. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. The zinc to copper ratio thing is really interesting. Because that makes me think of the calcium to magnesium ratio, where I think they, you know, the mainstream recommendation has been, I think, two to one calcium to magnesium, maybe even three to one, three times the calcium to magnesium. Like Morley and others have said, right? But it might be one to one right? I wonder if copper is similar? I don't know.

Jason Hommel 57:37
So I don't supplement with calcium at all. And I don't think I need to. And the reason is that we have well over a pound of calcium in our bodies in our skeleton. And it doesn't seem to me that the average person has difficulty getting calcium, if we all have an entire skeleton of the stuff in our bodies. What we have trouble getting and holding on to is copper, because we only have 72 milligrams of copper, and all these other things that block it. And copper is easily and quickly excreted, we don't have a copper skeleton. And yet, we need copper in our skeletons. Because we need copper to make red blood cells in the bone marrow. So if copper is not in our bones, we also have weak bones, we need copper on our bones because we need copper to make the collagen, which forms the matrix for us to even be able to lay down calcium in the first place. In fact, I've identified seven substances now in, six, when I wrote my arthritis book that we all need in order to absorb and put calcium into the bones and these substances are there. In my memory, I just give me a second. Copper, boron, magnesium, silica, and phosphorus. Those are the five minerals that we need to be able to absorb and put calcium into the bones and two vitamins, vitamin K and unfortunately, I will say niacin, I say niacin, niacin and unfortunately because I've learned that I don't really like niacin so much as I used to. There could be other substances that also helped put calcium into the bones. But two things that don't strengthen the bones that the mainstream media is gaga over about helping the bones are vitamin D and fluoride. Fluoride does not make strong teeth and bones fluoride makes skeletal fluorosis you can look up skeletal fluorosis, it makes weak bones when fluoride combines to bone, it turns it into glass, which is easily shatter bowl and breaks like crazy and it's no good. And vitamin D has been recently study. You've had Jim Stevenson's on your show. I know, and I'm not a fan of vitamin D, because the studies show that it weakens the bones. So.

Matthew Blackburn 59:49
in supplemental form, yeah, I think I like that Jim on my podcast. He's like, I'm not anti vitamin D, I'm anti d3, and especially orally, you know, and that's such a nuanced topic. It's so fascinating. I have like five different ultraviolet lights here. Now because I'm up in north Idaho. So you know, I'm not doing it for the vitamin D, though the hormone D, I'm doing the UV for all the other benefits, because it has a lot antiviral, tons of stuff.

Jason Hommel 1:00:18
So getting into light here, because we're doing video, people can only hear ,so maybe you can see, I have a slight little bit of a tan. To do that, I do the tanning booth thing, because I understand the importance of getting vitamin D naturally. And in fact, copper, and magnesium both help us make vitamin D because we need copper to make the melanin in our skin. The melanin is what creates the tan. The tan is what helps us naturally make the vitamin D.

Matthew Blackburn 1:00:45
Great. So I want to jump in to copper sulfate. On your Facebook group, you have a picture there in the banner. And it's all these little two ounce dropper bottles, and a bag of this blue powder called copper sulfate. And it's interesting actually ,being, you know, into goats. I was reading my goat care book the other day. And I found the mineral section, specifically the copper section. And it was talking about copper supplementation for goats. And the normal thing, it's really fascinating. It's these copper pills, is the most common thing to give to goats. And it's literally copper oxide, metal shards in a pill that you shoved down their throat like a gun. And the the metal shards actually get embedded into their gut. And I think over the course of 8 to 10 months, it's a slow release and doesn't hurt the animal. It's just it kind of sticks in their gut, and then it's just absorbed over months. But they were saying copper sulfate. It's killed goats, but they had it was I think they were giving insane doses over several days, but I guess. And this book was stuck with me about copper and goats and said copper sulfates absorbed super quick, I think there were just given them directly the powder. So it's fascinating when you get into studying minerals, and all the ones we've talked about, they're all bound to something right? Whether it's you know, glycinate or taurate or sulfate, whatever it is, and I guess they're absorbed differently depending on what they're bound to right.

Jason Hommel 1:02:32
So I have found that copper sulfate is one probably one of the safest forms of copper that's been studied with the highest threshold of toxicity,but, I don't know if the others has been studied as well as copper sulfate. And the other thing is that copper sulfate is by far in a way the cheapest ,copper sulfate in humans, they claim it's 80% absorbed. This contradicts what I said earlier that we only absorb 10% of it at higher doses. So at smaller doses, we absorb more right, presumably, it's where they get the differing factors, copper glycinates, or copper biisglycinates, those supplements that you buy for $10 to $60. Those are 85% absorbed. But those, if you're going to take 30 milligrams a day of something, those other off the shelf copper supplements, you're gonna go through, you know, five to eight bottles at 30 milligrams a day, because you'll be taking 10 pills a day and out of a 60 pill bottle, you're gonna go through it real fast. So you'll see the spend 60 bucks if there's two of you, husband and wife on that stuff, or you can make your own bottle for three cents worth of copper sulfate. And the way it works is you can get a pound of copper sulfate for $5 or even 10 pounds for $30. But you only use less than half a teaspoon in two ounces of water, which will make roughly one milligram per drop solution. Which so you can know how many milligrams you're getting. And we put it in our coffee and do it that way. And it's it's three cents a month. I'd much rather do three sets a month than $60 a month than in fact, I named my book The copper revolution because if you're going to create a revolution of people taking high copper, it can't be because it costs 60 to 100 bucks a month. It just can't. But at three cents a month. It's affordable for everybody. Nobody's getting rich. Nobody's earning a huge royalty here by promoting copper. All I have is basically my book. And you know the book is as cheap as 10 bucks if you buy the ebook, which is a little superior because you can follow the links but most sales are hard copy because people are probably afraid of getting censored or blocked. You know, because we just live in the censorship era and people can see that this is a level of truth they've never heard before, and they want it. In fact I have a Feeling people are buying multiple copies? Because that's what happens. You know, they look at the sales spikes, and it's like, Oh, why did six books sell today? And none yesterday, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 1:05:12
That's awesome. Yeah, years ago, I was making my own colloidal silver. And now I only believe in it topically for the most part maybe first aid and things but had the, you know, pure silver wires 99.999% I would distill my own water. I did it in the dark in a cabinet. But I remember during that time, I bought copper wire. And I've watched a video and there are videos on YouTube, I'm not sure if you've seen this Jason, where people are running an electric current through copper wires into like distilled water to make their own copper supplement, you know, and one of the one of the copper wires will kick off, you know, once positive ones negative ones gonna kick off some copper ions into the water. Have you ever seen that?

Jason Hommel 1:06:02
I've seen both and I've made my own Colloidal Silver, I did that for a while and drank it by the glass full. And initially, it seemed like it was really you know, doing something for me that better energy because you know, when you kill off the critters, you're gonna go through a little bit of a detox and then afterwards, you're like, Ah, this is great breath of fresh air. And then it stops working. And maybe one of the reasons why Colloidal Silver stops working is as Morley said it can block the copper. So it could have been one of the ways why ultimately became a little bit more copper deficient than the average person. You know, we do have this instinctive ability to say, this isn't right, I should stop. I'm just not getting the results I need. So I should stop. And in fact, I just told you earlier about how B6 is a neurotoxin, right. So I know magnesium is good for us, right? And I have this ultra mag that has five different forms of magnesium and I thought I was so smart. And it was just yesterday, I looked again at my ingredients and saw that it has 30 milligrams of B6 in it. And this could very well explain the reason why find it so darn hard to go back to that ultra mag because just just doesn't feel right in my body like it's supposed to. And I'm just not getting the benefits because freaking nerve toxins there. Dammit, what are they doing to us?

Matthew Blackburn 1:07:21
Right? Yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah, I came from came from the nootropics world. And they you know, what I used to take, I had like literally no joke 50 ingredients. And I think there was like a step two, which had another 50. So I was literally taking 100 different substances at once. And so now I try to simplify with supplements. And, you know, the ones I make are the ones I buy, just try to get isolated, you know, not a million ingredients in it. So I could kind of identify what's doing what.

Jason Hommel 1:07:51
Yeah, I got into colloidal minerals, again, probably back in my early 30s. And which is now almost 18 years ago. Because I wanted to get everything ,right? B`ut the amounts you're getting of all of the micro minerals are it's next to nothing. So you know, there's also magnesium oil, all right, because it contains everything in the sea. But the vast majority of it is magnesium and magnesium oil and then the second ingredient is sulfur. And then the third ingredient is so small it might as well not even be there. So you know you look at these Ooh concentrates minerals, right? Well concentrates is nothing different than magnesium oil. Different way it's wild the way they rebrand stuff, except the concentrates minerals is often 30 bucks. And the magnesium oil is often 10 bucks. So just by changing the name and saying hey, you're gonna get everything the management market up. So this is also attracted me to writing the book when I realized that I could, you know, promote something that's literally three cents, because it's not gonna break anybody's bank or be difficult. But let me tell you, I, I kind of didn't quite get to this question you said what really got you into it. I wrote my first book was arthritis book. And in my arthritis book, my largest chapter ended up being on copper. When I was finished, as I was finishing up this chapter on copper that was 27 pages long. I hit a realization and the realization was this. Every major disease that we die from has a component of copper deficiency in it, whether heart disease, or cancer, or sepsis, so I was like, wow, it must be the copper is only bad for the liver and the kidneys. That was my initial impression, not only a year ago, because those are the things that people die from what they take too much copper. But I looked into it. And I said well, how dangerous is copper deficiency to liver and kidney problems? And of course, copper deficiency is linked with the liver and kidney problems. So really copper heals, at the proper doses, heals both liver and kidney problems to blew my mind. That's so for the last year, I had been writing this copper book, like a man possessed going, I have to get this information out there, I have to write it and get it out there. So it doesn't just die on my computer in case something happens to me, you know, sometimes things are so important. So I didn't really even spend too much time promoting my first book. Because I had to write the second book. The second book is so important, humanity needs it. Because literally copper cures just about every single thing that people die from. And that blew me away, blew me away. I mean, I didn't go studying to try to like, you know, prove it. I don't care what it takes. I'm just gonna make the data fit. It was, Wow, this is crazy how to do this, you know? But yeah, your books loaded with links to the clinical studies. It's amazing, like every page is just tons of studies in it. Yeah, I recommend it. It's awesome. Well, yeah, as I described in my studies other people will cite studies that don't say what they claim to say. So in my book, I don't just footnote something and make the claim, I quote, the exact paragraph that I'm looking for. That says what I need to say, and sometimes maybe over quote, a little bit, right, but I put it in quotes, show my source. And it's not just an it's an it's a linkable source. So if you buy the ebook, you can click and get to it instantly. Because I can't tell you how many times we'll where the government will say, Oh, well, here's the proof that copper is toxic greater than 10 milligrams and it should you go follow the link and know that the study shows that animals die at 5000 milligrams, the study does not show what you wanted it to show it disproves what you're saying.

Matthew Blackburn 1:12:00
Yeah, I have found looking back for really controversial studies that they just, you can't find them. Even on the websites, you know, where you plug in the the ID and you pull up the whole study. It's just they're wiped from the internet. That's happened to me multiple times. I'm like, Oh, wow, this is a bombshell study just can't find it.

Jason Hommel 1:12:24
They full studies that are too controversial. It's It's amazing. That does happen. It's I've seen it happen.

Matthew Blackburn 1:12:32
Do you want to jump into some q&a questions? Jason? We have a we have a ton here.

Jason Hommel 1:12:38
Sure, let's do it. See how see how good we can do this? Sure, do it.

Matthew Blackburn 1:12:43
I'm sure it'll put us down some interesting rabbit holes. Someone made a statement that said a RH negative blood requires more copper. Have you looked into that, like people's genetics influencing copper?

Jason Hommel 1:12:58
I have seen one guy make that claim, that essentially everybody should have AB type before, if we have enough copper, unfortunately, I forgot what my blood type was back in high school days. And I don't know if my blood type has changed, but he was making that claim. So if anybody's hearing this and getting into copper for now, and you already know your blood type, check it after a year or two on enough copper and see if it changes. I mean, the only way to know is to test right? But what I am doing I am breaking new ground, there's essentially almost no testing on that out there. So we really just don't know the answer to that question. I think it's plausible. There's, there's enough information that it could be true because, we do know that blood cells are malformed and live shorter lives in copper deficiency. With enough copper, the blood cells are formed better and live longer. And copper, we know cures anemia, which is not enough red blood cell formation. So copper also helps to put iron into the blood. We know these things. So. So yes, copper might very well change the shape of blood cells or even the nature of them. Whether that changes blood types or not. It's a very interesting question. I just don't exactly know the answer. But sickle cell anemia is I guess, part of that right. Those are malformed blood cells.

Matthew Blackburn 1:14:22
Hmm. Yeah. That's fascinating. Um, we had some questions on gardening. And I'm interested to hear your answer on this because this year, the summer I'm actually going to put up a 33 foot dome greenhouse and I plan to grow some fruit up here in the snow be really exciting. And I'm excited to do it right do some advanced methods with growing food. And some people asked should we spray copper on our garden? Anything other than worm castings to get more copper in the soil for home gardens? I think farmers use copper sulfate right?

Jason Hommel 1:14:59
A lot of copper sulfate is best used in farming as a fungicide. So it's most famously known for being used in what's called a Bordeaux mixture for French red wine grapes. And in fact, if you'll if you'll remember, there's this peculiar thing in the health food industry about why is it that the French don't develop heart disease on their high fat diets, and it could very well be because they're getting so much copper sulfate sprayed on their French wines. But we don't see this effect over here in America, because they use fluoride fungals on the grapes, that fluoride ends up in the wines here instead of copper. So it could very well be that copper sulfate explains the French diet mystery, why they don't develop heart disease on their high fat diets. So the amount of copper wine ends up being about only one milligram. However, it's like one milligram or half a milligram per bottle. However, if the average American is only getting 0.6 milligrams of copper in their diets, you're talking about 100 to 200% increase just at small levels. So, you know, over a lifetime, those small amounts have an effect. But wow, I think we work to counterbalance with fluoride in America.

Matthew Blackburn 1:16:20
I think more Morley said like alcohol depletes and I think hard liquor especially as benefits if someone's doesn't get addicted to it. But uh, does our drinking alcohol deplete copper? Because I've heard that I thnk it was Morley

Jason Hommel 1:16:36
it must, it must only because it has no minerals in it. It's it's a refined thing. It's as bad as sugar. And it requires a lot of processing. So alcoholics are notoriously deficient in the B vitamins. And of course it has no minerals in it just like white sugar has no minerals, just like white flour has almost no minerals. So yeah.

Matthew Blackburn 1:16:56
Yeah, it's interesting. Lately, I've looked at cannabis, alcohol, and tobacco, all three are powerful anti parasitics. So fascinating, that most people are on at least one of those. But yet we still have worms, is that the copper deficiency?

Jason Hommel 1:17:16
It could very well be copper deficiency in fact, so we should get into this and that's right, parasites block copper, and copper kills parasites, works both ways.

Matthew Blackburn 1:17:30
Wow. Yeah, yeah. And there's so many different types. Like years ago, I was obsessed in my vegan days. You know, it's like chopsticks in the toilet. Sorry. It's a lot of information but just like doing tons of colon cleansing, taking pictures of stuff coming out of me. And I mean, pinworms, thread worms, hookworms, tapeworms. There's so many different types right? And I think people like to think they don't have them, just because that's a more pleasant thought than thinking that there's these creatures roaming around your body. So I've gone through a couple of parasite cleanses myself, looked for parasites I was unfortunately never able to find any, but I I tried to kill them with diatomaceous earth I tried to kill them with hydrogen peroxide. You know, I've been on high copper now for four years. And I'm always disappointed that I don't find any parasites, you know, but I don't look through it with a fine tooth comb, and maybe I just flushed them too quick. Who the hell knows? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, copper seems like the natural anti parasitic, that's almost like our first line of defense, whereas people are, you know, I mean, I deworm. I gave my goats here ivermectin in the paste, a few days ago. And that's good to do to your animals every once in a while. I recommend diatomaceous earth for cats and dogs. But it's incredible that humans go their whole life without doing it. Especially being copper deficient at the same time.

Jason Hommel 1:19:04
Yeah, it's amazing, you know, copper detoxes so many different things. I think the the trouble with creating the copper revolution is that half of the people get nausea on copper and it could very well be because they're detoxing from so many things at once. I think we really need to get the message out that if people are going to do it, look, persist, you know, it's worth it. Get on the other side, get past those detoxes you know, kill your parasites, you know, get the fluoride out, get your iron back down, you know, the bromide will come out. Yeah, they'll let you know, you have to get through those initial discomforts, to take enough copper to make the Metallo enzymes that will then grab and detox those other things. And it's, it's not, you don't need to test that it's there. We're all Americans, you know? We all have toxins we all have toxin exposure, assume you've got it. Take the copper. You'll feel better? You'll see.

Matthew Blackburn 1:20:03
Yeah, a few years ago when I did a vitamin E therapy, I think I was doing like four to six thousand IUs a day for a while I broke out like I've never broke out my skin before because it's an estrogen detox and helps with a lot of different things. But I started hitting the sauna hard and that cleared up. I mean, that expedited my skin clearing so much, so much faster. Are you a fan of infrared saunas for people to detox faster?

Jason Hommel 1:20:32
Jennifer actually had an infrared sauna. But now that we're on the road, we're not using it. I think it's a good idea. I would love to use it on a regular basis, but unfortunately, I can't. I can't. Um, have you heard of a book called The Hidden cause of acne?

Matthew Blackburn 1:20:47
I haven't No.

Jason Hommel 1:20:49
In that book, they make the case that acne is really fluoride coming out. A lot of teenagers get the acne but that's when they go into the dentist for fluoride treatment. So it's really the acne is from fluoride. It's not from hormones, going whack I mean it is from hormones going whack but the reason why the hormones are upset is because fluoride is in there disrupting your hormones. Fluoride is a huge hormone disruptors. So when I first started iodine, very high iodine we were using potassium iodide, I I got actually 2000 milligrams a day with iodine. When I first started that I broke out with acne all up in my upper back. I never had acne my upper back as a problem. And then, it all went away! And I'm like, oh my god, Finally I don't have acne anymore. This is wild. And when I started the topical copper on my skin another thing I noticed is my skin cleared up and just got my pores so smooth. I don't know if you can see them but I just I can't believe how smooth my pores are. Of course copper also should detox fluoride so that could explain why my skin feels so fantastic. But copper heals the skin for other ways too. I mean we need collagen for the skin. What are the big huge things people raving about for the skin? collagen injections collagen this collagen that collagen helps us hydrate and hold on to water. Copper builds collagen and with the collagen it holds on to water which then eliminates wrinkles. I mean copper is amazing amazing stuff.

Matthew Blackburn 1:22:21
Huh? Wow. Kind of on the topic of skin, graying of hair? Is that is that excess hydrogen peroxide from a copper deficiency?

Jason Hommel 1:22:38
So my wife actually ended up with a little bit of early gray and she thinks it's partly from the niacin it's on a detox protocol. And niacin can block copper. In fact, if you look up copper or if you, sorry, if you look up niacin toxicity. After having read my book on all the ways copper heals and all things copper does, you'll see that niacin toxicity reads a lot like copper deficiency. Niacin can create insulin resistance, and copper makes us more sensitive to insulin, nicacin leads to just a number of different copper deficiency symptoms. And so early graying could be one and she got the gray after that. She also did high vitamin C to try to heal you know, like a 20-30,000 milligrams of vitamin C. And her hair went a little bit more gray after that, too. So yes, we need we need copper to make the melanin and there's a multi step process. Copper increases dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter in the brain. Dopamine comes together to form melanin, and the melanin makes the color for tanning and the color in our hair both.

Matthew Blackburn 1:23:49
Wow. That's incredible. Best time to take copper supplements? Looks pretty good. He's showing me his hair for those of you on audio. It depends whether it's your sulfate, you know that you make it home or the pills? Would it be different depending on the form or?

Jason Hommel 1:24:17
So for the first three years on high copper, I was mostly just doing about up to 30 milligrams a day with pills. And the trouble was nausea. It was always there at least a little bit. Never wanted to take more than 10 milligrams at once. It was hard to work up to 10 milligrams. So one of the benefits of of copper sulfate and making your own solution is you can apply it topically so you can absorb more without and bypass the nausea. As far as time of day goes. I do find that copper since it maybe is more energizing can keep us awake. But, that was only my initial impression. As I've convinced more and more people to take copper, and as I've gotten more and more testimonials, the number one thing people say is, I not only feel as if the Copper has given me my brain back, and I'm smarter, but also I'm sleeping more deeply than ever before, because I'm breathing better through my nose, my constant coughing is going away, you know, I can sleep in one position longer. So deeper sleep. So, so the other thing I noticed with copper is I dream more, vivid dreams also with iodine, vivid dreams. So for the longest time, my wife and I, we don't want to have these vivid dreams because they seem to just maybe wake us up or whatever. I don't know, it just seems weird. So we would take copper and iodine in the morning. But when we said to ourselves, let's embrace the dreaming, because maybe we need iodine more in our system, right when we're sleeping, to heal more, because these are healing agents. So we, we started putting iodine and copper in our milk at night, because milk helps sleep right. And just decided to enjoy the vivid dreams. And so that's what we have been doing lately and it's, it's just fine. Kind of want to take zinc away from some of the other minerals, we do like take zinc at night because zinc is a great sleep aid. But you know, if I take if we do like milk, like about an hour before bed, and then zinc right before bedtime, not a problem. They have a dreams. Wonderful.

Matthew Blackburn 1:26:29
Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, last night, when I was doing laundry, I was thinking about our show, and stuff to ask you and I have a star link up here. Because you know, that's like my most reliable form of internet at night, unplug it, you know, so I have no Wi Fi when I sleep. But I bought a cover to go over the Wi Fi router. And I've measured it with some my meters and just being within you know, 10-20 feet of it, it buzzes and sings. So it's a pretty strong signal that we can't auditorily hear but our cells hear it. So I put a mesh thing over it, like a signal tamer, it's called. And they say 90 to 95% reduction, you know, because Wi Fi routers are overpowered to like shoot it off your neighbor. And what's interesting is this mesh is made of silver, I think silver, zinc and copper. There's copper in there, and it made me think of you, so I wonder if these minerals in our body is what helps us mitigate these manmade harmful electromagnetic fields that everyone's freaking out about, you know, 5g and all these things. I wonder if we had mineral balance and magnesium especially, but also all the other ones? If we'd be more resilient, wouldn't get anxiety when we're in a bunch of Wi Fi? And what are your thoughts on that?

Jason Hommel 1:27:56
Absolutely, yes, surprisingly enough, If you'll notice, the reason why electric motors work is that there's a resistance of electrical current flowing through copper and Faraday cages are a real thing. It's not just tinfoil hat, weird conspiracy. But the whole point of the tinfoil hat is to block those EMF radiation they use it as a name to slander us, right. But this medical establishment actually makes a Faraday cage around every single MRI machine otherwise, that wouldn't work. So Faraday cages are real. They work, they use them, but we're crazy. And they call us tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists, even though it's technology that they use and embrace. So go figure right. So copper is actually known to protect against radiation damage, for radiation exposure, and as well as copper also heals from radiation damage and exposure. So a lot of people's EMF sensitivities are really just copper deficiency. The medical establishment has no answer for that. But if they would just take the copper, which you don't need a prescription for, this is not medical advice, because copper is off the shelf. Anybody can advocate it under the First Amendment, it's not medical advice to say, hey, take more copper. Just like I could say, hey, read this book, or we could say, yeah, hey, you know, buy this product or that product. Anyone can advocate any vitamin and mineral out there for health. It probably bugs them to no end that that's legal in America. We will see, probably increasingly further clamp downs on that. In fact, one of the difficulties are is of course I can't sell a supplement and write a book because that would be a conflict of interest and the FDA has made that illegal. In fact they made almond growers so they're not allowed to make health claims about almonds, walnut growers can't make health claims, cherry growers can't make health claims about cherries. The First Amendment is gone in America in large sense because the FDA has trampled on it and nobody has had the guts to take the FDA to court and say I'm sorry, but the rule you're making violates the First Amendment, you can go shove it. And I don't plan to take them on. But hopefully, one day somebody will, and hopefully it will go up in front of a judge who is not completely bribed and taken over, and maybe if enough people shout, we can have our First Amendment freedoms back. But I really find no need to make a copper supplement to then sell it at a markup when you can just go and buy the stuff yourself and make it for yourself for three cents. Let's pass the savings on and I'll have fun making copper and do it that way. But yeah, I was very surprised that copper actually blocks EMF radiation and heals us from that. That's very interesting. And it's just, it's cool. What can I say?

Matthew Blackburn 1:30:48
Yeah, it makes sense. If, like you said, it protects the nerves, and it's responsible for building the myelin sheath. That would make sense. We had a funny question here. Can I eat a nickel? Are nickels made of copper still?

Jason Hommel 1:31:09
Not good. That's, you know, there's no reason for that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:31:16
That's funny. But I remember I used to polish them like when I was little, soak them in vinegar or something. It's been years.

Jason Hommel 1:31:27
Yeah, I don't think we need nickel as a nutrient really, I think nickels probably one of those quasi toxins. I don't know how much nickels in a nickel anymore these days anyway, it's probably less than 5%.

Matthew Blackburn 1:31:39
Right? Let's see methylene blue and how it affects copper. Have you looked into that because more or less that it's like copper polish, and the result, I mean, I got extremely censored on social media. I'm still, my accounts like shadow banned. People can't mention it, just crazy. Like limiting my account extremely the stuff that I could do. All I've done is talk about methylene blue the last year, that must be very effective, because they shut people down if they just talk or if they just mentioned it.

Jason Hommel 1:32:15
Right. So I you know, I almost mentioned it in my book as a copper blocker. But I'm like methylene blue. Clearly no one's heard of this. I only just heard of it this year. So I'm just gonna sound crazy if I mentioned it so I'm just not gonna mention it at all. I have learned that people have used it to chelate, the copper toxicity right? But copper is not toxic, and we don't want to induce a deficiency. So I would stay away from methylene blue.

Matthew Blackburn 1:32:45
Well, no, Morley actually says It, so ceruloplasmin is a sky blue protein, and I guess, graphene oxide, and the job, ascorbic acid, a lot of things bleach it, so it actually turns it white, methylene blue, you know, it'll stain your clothes blue. So it made sense to me Morley was saying that it actually will regenerate copper in your body. I recently had COVID. I was down for three days. And I think I got shredded on and I was high dosing methylene blue, as well as ozone and hyperbaric. And I credit that to my fast recovery. I guess, I don't know what it's doing exactly. But it seems to affect copper in a good way. Like I haven't I haven't seen in the research that it depletes it. But maybe, maybe as it's working with it, it's using it up? I don't know. It's, it's interesting.

Jason Hommel 1:33:39
Well, that's the problem. I tried to then look into it again. And I couldn't find my source that said that methylene blue depletes it. So then I'm like, Ah, forget about it. It's too much work. So why bother? And besides, I really don't know anything about it. So I left that out of the book. So maybe I don't know what I'm talking about there. And that's, that's when I'm, you know, we can't all be experts in everything. So I shouldn't just skip that question in the beginning.

Matthew Blackburn 1:33:59
No, I think it's great. It's a sign of humbleness to admit that you don't know all the answers. I mean, we're not, we're not hooked up with neuro link yet right.

Jason Hommel 1:34:12
Not yet, we all have access to the information on the internet. The trouble is trying to determine the difference between what is true and what is not true. out there. You know, I mean, we had a troll come into the forum the other day, and you know, they said I was lying. I said, they were lying, but they couldn't answer any of my questions either. So, you know, and they weren't willing to look at anything and they didn't respond to any of the numbers that I shared. So the dialogue went nowhere real fast. Because a lot of times people imagine that if there's a difference of opinion, you must be lying, or you must just not know the subject were Well, anybody can write a book. Or, well, you know, if you're not a doctor, then you know, what do you know? Well, I knew enough not to become a doctor because I don't believe in poisoning people. How about that? For starters, you know? Seriously?

Matthew Blackburn 1:35:05
That's awesome. Well, I don't know if you've heard this theory, because I was looking into transhumanism and artificial intelligence, which just got me depressed, I stopped looking into it, because it's freaking scary. But there is a theory that a lot of the trolls online think it was like 60 to 70% could just be artificial intelligence, literally robots, just there to stir us up. It resonated when I heard that

Jason Hommel 1:35:29
I don't think so. Because I have had chats with AIs that were far more intelligent than the troll was. And, you know, they're these chat bots, you can download to your phone and try to chat with them. And they're usually just, you know, there's a lot of just nonsense talk, that's benign, not coming in and attacking and saying you're hurting people, and then boasting about it over on the other forum. These are, these are real people who do it. What I did in my book, and this was actually kind of funny, I didn't quite expect it to work out this way. But I've had numerous discussions with people who are copper deficient. And there are certain patterns to the way their brain works and I wrote down the pattern. And when this troll came into the forum, what was interesting is that the the troll fit the pattern exactly. And it could very well be just a syndrome of copper deficiency, where a person can barely just repeat slogans and can't get into any discussions of any details of what you've said. I mean, it was it was a weird pattern, it very well could be a AIs but I've never seen AIs act exactly that way. Humans act this way. It's, it's, I hate to get political, but it's like, you know, TV watcher, right. There's not a whole lot of depth there. They just repeat slogans and they think that if you don't agree with their slogans, it must be you're too stupid to memorize the slogans. That's not the case. I'm refuting the slogans and you know, don't quite get it. There's reasoning behind it.

Matthew Blackburn 1:37:08
Probably fluoride mixed in there too right? The fluoride stare and copper and magnesium deficiency. And I think there's a lot going on with people these days,

Jason Hommel 1:37:20
And probably a lack of practice and thinking, you know, that's part of it, too.

Matthew Blackburn 1:37:26
Right yeah, I noticed in the health community that submission to authorities is really popular and I try to like, quote, "market" myself as someone that's not a guru that can make mistakes, that can be wrong. And like, just experiment with it. I'm just providing the information. This is not written in stone. Just try it out, you know?

Jason Hommel 1:37:47
Well, I can't believe how much I've learned in the month since I published my book, because my book has attracted some of the brightest and intelligent minds out there into the forum. A lot of them have said, well, what do you think about this? And what do you think about that? And what do you think about B 12? And, um, you know, the hard part about writing a book for a year in panic mode, like I had that copper heals darn near everything is that it takes time away from studying all the other stuff, because you're just going in real, I went both real deep into copper, and I went real broad on copper, right? And when you do that for a year, and lock yourself into just that. I'm not studying what potassium does necessarily except in relation to copper. I'm not studying what B 12 does, except in relation to copper. So I mean, you can't study everything at once you have to pick a subject, right? And copper seemed to be it it was the most important thing I could think of at the time. And I have learned at least five major things in the last month and changed my own routine. So I'm doing more B 12. I'm doing less salt. Salt was recommended by the iodine doctors but you know, salt creates bloat, and it's numerous other reasons why it shouldn't be there. potassium helps to keep salt down so we're taking more potassium, less salt, more B12, well, that's the third one, less B6 because B6 is a neurotoxin at low levels. And also, I'd already kind of didn't like niacin, but there's more reasons to not like niacin as I had been finding because of the copper blocking effect of niacin. So that's five major changes all in the last month. That's crazy.

Matthew Blackburn 1:39:30
That's amazing. I am a fan of that. Maybe I'll send you some info but I actually sell a B3 supplement in the form of niacinamide and I learned about that from Dr. Raymond Peat and I think it's a lot safer than niacin. Because flushing or non flushing people don't realize nice and still has that same effect. Even if you don't turn red like I used to do. Even if you take the non flushing it's still causing somewhat of a reaction in your system that's not good, where as niacinamide does none of that.

Jason Hommel 1:40:06
That's the one, yeah, the niacinamide. Because it's non flushing and it's also not the time release, which I heard was bad but um, you know, the original backers of niacin and some of the promoters of it even to this day, well Abram Hoffer, he's dead now but his student Andrew Saul who promotes niacin, I promoted nicacin in my book, to be honest with you, in my first book, because it cures arthritis. I tested it out at 1500 milligrams. I swear to God, I got a significant increase in range of motion. For sure it's a detoxifier. No doubt, I don't doubt that it detoxifies things. But if in the process of detoxifying things, if niacin is acting as a chelator, and removing necessary copper, I wouldn't call and say necessarily that niacin is bad, but it's a reason to take more copper than you would otherwise take if you're taking niacin at the same time. Or you have to be aware of the fact that niacin is more likely to block copper than the other way around. Because how much niacin do we take? We take 500 milligram of niacin, or niacinamide pills are 1,500 or even 3,000. Well, 3,000 milligrams of niacin is enough to cause liver damage, or 6,000, it depends. But if in some people, they're more susceptible, and they get liver damage at 3,000, how much more toxic is niacin then than copper sulfate, which is killing people at 20,000 milligrams? It's a lot more toxic, and yet we're taking niacin at 500 milligrams? That's what my pill is, 500 milligrams of niacinamide, right? So if I'm able to take niacin that's toxic at these low doses, at 3,000 and I'm taking it at 500. Shouldn't I be taking copper at 1,000? Let's just live on the wild side, right? So I mean, you could see how safe copper is in comparison to some of these other things. And we even know why they're bad. We know why niacin is, it's clearly blocking copper in all these different ways, and copper, since it's so good for us... again, if we take copper with niacin probably better, right? And in fact, if you take them together, they have almost a synergistic positive effect on our pleasure system. And I have noticed that when I take both niacin and copper at the same time, I feel real good in the brain, like super, enormously happy drug-like effect. But again, niacin is more likely to block copper than the other way around, because we're taking 500 milligrams of niacin. Nobody takes 500 milligrams of copper, not even the crazy copper guy, Jason Hommel here. They take 100, 100 milligrams of copper, how safe is that? Right?

Matthew Blackburn 1:42:35
It's interesting, because I'm friends with people that are, you know, very cautious with supplements, where it's just a few supplements. But once you start playing with a lot of things, I noticed it's a delicate balancing act because in foods everything's in the proper ratio and amounts, right?

Jason Hommel 1:42:55
With oyster not so much. We have a theory that they're proper, they're not. Oysters will lead to copper deficiencies as we just discovered. Interesting. I'll ask you this question because it's a good segway. Someone said, "does beef liver still contain two times the copper-to-iron if the soil is now deficient?" Because I know that, in my goat book, it said they have to do a liver biopsy to find the levels of copper in an animal. That's like the most accurate because most of it stored in the liver, right? But that's a good question. That's a very good question. In fact, somebody in the forum mentioned that today like "well, how do we really know how much copper?". I mean, I can go out there on the internet and find a source, but just because I found a source, does that mean it's true? And when did they source it? When did they test it? Was that 30 years ago, and maybe things have changed. What I have found is a source that says copper deficiency is the most common mineral deficiency in agricultural animals period. It was somebody from the US Department of Agriculture who said it, like very authoritatively, and I think Morley makes the comment that like... look, if our vegetables are grown in copper deficient soils, because they're, you know, they're over farmed or whatever, and our animals are copper deficient, then how much more copper deficient are we going to be? And it could very well be. I'll make the case that the iodine doctors, they made the case that because iodine is so water soluble, that in Noah's Flood, all the iodine rushed out into the oceans. So this is why taking such enormously high amounts of iodine can be beneficial. And yet we would never be able to get that from our foods because we're living in a post flood Earth and so they challenged researchers and future eras which now we're in one, they said look for other minerals that may have gotten washed into the oceans that are no longer in the soil. And copper sulfate is easily water soluble, mixes very easily in water so it could very well be that Noah's flood also mixed a ton of copper out of our soil, we have no idea what the original soil was like. And the Bible talks about how the age of mankind went from about almost 900 years. Noah, that's flood happened when he was 600. He lived to be 900, he lived another 300 years after the flood and his sons lived about 600, their sons lived about 300. And their sons lived to be about 120. And God says, So man's days will now only be about 120. And even the Guinness Book World Records, nobody lives longer than 120 years. And it could very well be that the combination of the loss of many different minerals we have only identified maybe two, iodine and copper, they've gotten washed into the oceans. Now in contrast to iodine, iodine is actually concentrated in the oceans since seaweed, copper not so much. This is very interesting. Why? Why don't we find co pper in the oceans if theoretically washed their Jason? Because in fact that I have a source that says coppers three times more in rivers than in ocean water? Well, you're not supposed to mix a copper sulfate with magnesium oil. And the reason is that the sulfur will come jump off of the copper and go to the magnesium and generate a heat reaction. So if you're into topical magnesium and into topical copper, just don't mix the two. I haven't experimented with it yet. But you go look at videos and you can see them mixing these two substances together and it will generate heat in this reaction. So don't experiment on your skin with this one. I don't know what the temperature is. But the point being in ocean water, to get back to the point, it's mostly salt in the second most prevalent mineral is magnesium. So if copper sulfate or other you know, copper complexes are washed into the ocean, it could be the sulfur will jump to the magnesium. And then the copper will then as a pure metallic copper precipitate out and hit the ocean floor. So that could explain why we don't see copper in the oceans, even though it could have been there in the soils originally. And if that's the case, we would expect to find perhaps things live along the ocean bottom to be higher in copper, like you know, clams and crab. And that's exactly what we see. The two highest copper foods are the liver, and clams and crabs. And I don't eat clams and crabs because they're not kosher. And because they are high and other toxins, and people often get the histamine reactions, which is an allergy. Because allergies to seafood is because that stuff is toxic, and it's not kosher, we shouldn't be eating it. So you know the whole point in most of these natural health groups, they at least embrace the idea of detoxing heavy metals, and replenishing the minerals. But nobody is into replenishing copper. Even though copper detoxes all the minerals. This is a no brainer. People should jump on this message, like easier than anything. What is really all so really, really weird, is it it's so weird that you have your mainstream medical people who think copper is toxic, okay, people will go to the medical doctors with neurological problems and, and diagnosed copper deficiency, and doctors will tell them, Well, you can't take too much copper because it'll destroy your nerves because that's what happens in Wilson's disease. And so they'll give people injections of half a milligram of copper because they're afraid to give them too much. So the medical establishment really believes in copper toxicity. And then all your hair tissue mineral analysis and alternative health gurus and naturopaths also all believe in copper toxicity, and yet there's not a single scintilla of evidence for it. Please prove to me copper toxicity if it exists as a thing. Show me the study where people took copper and then develop diseases. It doesn't exist. The government admits that study doesn't exist. The only real study we have is Alvarez, these people took 20 milligrams of copper and showed no harm. That's great. I'd love to have no harm because the another word for no harm is happy health. I'm feel I feel like I'm in great health has done great wonders for me. And my cognitive function. I can memorize things now way better than I used to. I could never imagine that I would write a 500 page book filled with scientific studies. What an exhaustive task. I mean, my God, but I feel like my old earlier works on copper are amateurish compared to what I'm able to achieve now. So that's copper, copper has got to be great for our intelligence. I'm able to do an interview like this, right? I don't know.

Matthew Blackburn 1:48:54
Yeah, yeah, you're super sharp. But it's always inspiring to me when I see someone chronologically older, but still sharp. It really lights me up. I find a lot of older people. It's just like, who cares? It may just float through life and I'm on my way out, you know, and it's like, there's nothing new to learn. And we've already discovered everything and like, No!

Jason Hommel 1:49:48
I gotta tell you, you're right. A lot of people in their 40s have have significantly diminished cognitive function. And I have gained a lot back and in fact, in my 40s when I went through business trouble, part of what was driving me to a bit of a madness in my midlife crisis was I had all this money stolen from me, I've just recovered from alcoholism. And I was like, I don't have the cognitive abilities to do now, in my 40s, that what I could do in my 30s. But now, better than I've ever been in my life, by far, in so many different ways, I can't even tell you. But one of the amazing things is you would think that as I'm getting older, I'm 51, that I would have less patience, because I could tell my life is running out. But at the same time, I have more patience now than ever. Especially for people who don't know what I know, because they don't know it. So I have to give them a break. You know, in my book, I make the case I say, look, I go over, is there a secret cabal of people who are trying to make us all copper deficient? Maybe. But is it important to know whether that's true? And the answer is no, because the answer is the same? The answer is we have to take responsibility for our own health. And it doesn't matter what they do at the top. And I'll go one further. And I'll say, Look, nobody has ever defected from the elite, and come down to us and say, Look, I have left this Satanists club. And I know we all need to take copper, because they're trying to deplete us all copper. You know, Jesus said, it's the blind leading the blind. And there's something to that, it could very well be. And I hate to I didn't want to put this in the book, because I don't want to sound crazy. But I'll say it here because you've said some things earlier. And we're Christians and it goes along lines like this. Jesus also said the whole world follows after the devil, if we believe in Jesus, if we believe in heaven, we also have to believe in what Jesus believed in, which is demon possession, it could very well be that the idea to make us all copper deficient is a doctrine of demons, and that the people that they are influencing, do not know that they are being influenced to deplete everybody of copper. And I'll go one step further. We've heard rumors of child sacrifice, and the Bible talks about child sacrifice. And with child sacrifice, what do they do they terrorize the child and they drink the blood, and it's called Adrenochrome and all the rest, right? So children's blood is high and copper. Copper gives us adrenaline. If you wanted your religious acolytes, who were Satan worshippers to get a nice good hit off of child's blood, they're gonna get a much stronger hit if they're copper deficient first. So this could very well be a doctrine of demons. You see. And they don't even know they're copper deficient at the top when they're getting their hits of child's blood. And look, the whole doctrine of drinking child's blood. It's not just some weird wacko conspiracy theory, look at the Dark Crystal, Child's puppet movie, they're drinking blood. This this, this running theme of drinking blood of children is in all sorts of fiction. And it goes back to you know, it's in the Bible. It's in the Bible, thou shall not pass the child into the sacrifice to Molach you know, it's there. It's there.

Matthew Blackburn 1:53:32
Have you seen the carnivore people now drinking blood? Like they're drinking mason jars of like beef blood or chicken blood? It's weird to me.

Jason Hommel 1:53:42
No, I haven't. But let's be abundantly clear here. The Bible says do not drink the blood. Okay, the Bible is very clear about that. And you don't have to, the there's, there's several interesting stories in the Bible where copper is used for healing. Moses made a copper snake and put it up and we're supposed to look at the snake and then the poison doesn't affect us. Well, what does modern science show? Modern science shows that, of course, copper is a wonderful detox agent. There's another one that the priests at the temple were supposed to get in this large copper bath that was like 15 feet wide and six feet deep. And so copper would be infused into the waters and be like an antibacterial for all of them, keeping them all extra clean. A couple other little stories like that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:54:33
Wow. Well, Jason we had a ton of questions. Jumping tracks, this is a big jump but copper IUDs it a lot of women send in questions about those because that's kind of where the copper toxicity conversation leads right? Tosay oh, copper IUDs that all these women have. That's what's causing the problem, what are your thoughts on those?

Jason Hommel 1:54:57
So I have addressed that very specifically in my book, I very specifically went into the copper IUD forum to look for further information and to tell them that it's probably not the copper. So if you look up how much copper comes off of an IUD over time is this is known and knowable information, it's slightly variant, okay, but it's relatively knowable. So the amount is 0.4 milligrams, it's an extremely tiny, tiny amount. And it's in the form of a copper oxide, which is a typical form of supplements very safe, not very well absorbed, say 40% absorbed instead of 80% absorbed. So it's an extremely small amount. Because most people get 0.6, not zero 0.04. It's well, under a 10th of what most people get per day. The other reason why we know that it's not enough to cause copper toxicity is that within about 10 days of getting an IUD, a person's blood copper amount will double. Well, how much copper is in the blood? And it's about seven milligrams. So if it doubles, you're getting another seven milligrams in the blood. Well, you can't get that much over 10 days from an IUD because it's not leeching off that much, it would take 110 days to get the amount of copper and it would all have to go into the blood and nowhere else. That's impossible. So there's another mechanism of action for how an IUD raises copper in the blood, and that mechanism of action is through estrogen. In other words, and I want you to imagine this, and you'll be able to imagine it, okay, the the copper IUD is poking in the sensitive lady parts, okay, now, and it gets embedded in there. So I want you to imagine if I were to slowly hammer a nail into your left testicle until it became embedded into that testicle, and it was walking around in danling between your legs, and then imagine how much testosterone rage you would feel for that being there. That's what the women are getting from their estrogen release. And it's the release of estrogen that's doubling their copper. Because that's what happens during pregnancy and it's supposed to mimic pregnancy. So why does copper go up in the blood? It's for the baby. It's for a reason. But the reason is not there, because they're trying to prevent pregnancy. So where does that copper go? First of all, they've got hormonal imbalances, not copper toxicity, it's the hormonal imbalance, as well as the physical trauma and their delicate lady parts that's causing the problem and mental anguish because I guarantee you, I would have mental anguish if there was nail being pounded in my left testicle every day and it became embedded in there, I would be really fucking pissed off. And that's the only time I will swear. But I guarantee you it's not copper toxicity. When I presented this information to women in a group, 6000 of them, in a group called copper toxicity from IUDs. I got about six major answers from these women. You ready to hear what their answers were? Math has no power over my uterus. It's such a nonsensical statement. The only way they would make that kind of a statement is if they are in a severely depleted copper depleted weak brain. Or they would say things like, Well, tell me again, how that IUD affected your uterus Jason. As if because I'm a man, I couldn't possibly understand the pain they feel. I mean, it's just nonsense, everything they came back at me with and they said about the most common thing I had 13 of them accuse me of denying their symptoms. How dare you deny our symptoms? I not once denied that they're having symptoms. All I did was question the cause. In other words, they're so brain damage from their induced copper deficiency by taking too much zinc, because they believe their own bullshit, that they've created brain damage in themselves. So they can't even think straight. They don't even know the difference between suggesting there could be a different cause. And whether or not they actually are having symptoms, because I said no, I heard are having symptoms, but copper is not the cause. Copper would be curing those symptoms. You don't understand copper. it's a point I got right. I completely addressed it. Nobody else can even counter it. So I'm right. They're wrong.

Matthew Blackburn 1:59:43
You know what's interesting, Jason, I looked up a Paragard, which I guess is the brand name of a popular copper IUD and I wonder if it's just a psyop to put copper in the name because It says here, the plastic T frame of Paragard is made of polyethylene and barium sulfate. Wonder if those are actually causing the issue?

Jason Hommel 2:00:10
Well, another thing. Yeah, I mean, it could be those other substances that are also in there because it's just it's not, they used to make them solid copper. Now they're making plastic, and copper. And also, they're now making them in copper coils. In the old days, they used to be a solid copper T rod thing that was different. Now, if you know anything about coils coils more both receivers and transmitters of electromagnetic fields, and we're surrounded by more now than than ever, who knows what that's doing to the body? We really don't know, there's just so much so but I know that it's not leaching enough copper to be harmful because again, I'm taking 100 milligrams a day. And I don't have any psychosis or difficulties thinking or reasoning, they do. So therefore, its their copper deficincey that they've created in themselves, which are creating a whole nother problem, on top of their hormonal imbalance that they're getting from from IUD.

Matthew Blackburn 2:01:08
Yeah, well, it makes sense the estrogen going up because I know enoestrogens, plastics increase estrogen. So that polyethylene, it's that's an interesting rabbit hole. I'm interviewing our water expert in a few days here. And he, he was worried about my copper pipes here. I have a mix of copper pipes and PEXs here in my house. And someone sent into question, a lot of folks are using copper piping for water lines in their houses. Is this good or bad? Or what do you say neutral.

Jason Hommel 2:01:41
So I, I would say copper itself is going to only be good. However, it's when fluoride runs through the water then binds to the copper that is the bad thing. Because if your only source of copper is all 100% contaminated with fluoride, it's going to gum up your entire copper metabolism capacity. Nobody talks about this. But here's something very interesting I did in my studies of the copper book, The EPA has about 170 page document listing why copper in water should be no more than 1.3 milligrams, which is a very interesting number. In fact, it's exactly twice the weight of the amount of fluoride that's allowed in the water. And if you look at the copper to fluoride molecule, it has one copper atom and two fluoride atoms and the two fluoride, fluoride is a very light molecule. So it's actually it's twice as heavy in a copper as it is in fluoride. So it would stand to reason that if there's more than 1.3 milligrams of copper in the water, it's because they've gone over the fluoride limit, because it's fluoride is what stripping the copper. The other very interesting thing and the EPA has guidelines for how much copper should be in water is they don't mention fluoride once, except in the allusion to, as I did, if you run the math, more than 1.3 milligrams of copper would indicate high fluoride. If you do the math, you can determine that that's the only sense that they've mentioned fluoride. Otherwise, the word fluoride is not in their document at all, which is super disingenuous, and extraordinarily extraordinary way to hide the truth. And if they're hiding the truth, it's because for the problem and not the copper. There's a follow up question for that and it goes like this Ayurvedic Indian Health guidelines are that you should drink out of a copper cup that had been left out overnight. And when you do that, you're getting approximately 0.4 milligrams of purely Ionic, purely metallic copper, it's not bio unavailable, it's perfectly available, it's fine. These ideas of toxic copper and bio unavailable copper are probably people inventing reasons to claim that copper from pipes is bad, which we know copper from pipes is bad. But it's only bad from pipes because it's the fluoride that's bad in there, or the other 50 other toxins that municipal water supplies add to the water supply such as chlorine. So again, you know, if you're going to study copper and pipe is bad, and you want to blame copper, I'm sorry, you have to deal with those 50 other co variables first, or specifically fluoride, because we know that it's a neurotoxin, whereas copper is not a neurotoxin. Copper heals the nerves and at least 15 different ways.

Matthew Blackburn 2:04:32
You must be partially psychic because you answered the copper cup question. We had a few of those I used to do that years ago. Yeah that's interesting though. It's an Ayurvedic practice, right? Really big into using copper.

Jason Hommel 2:04:51
Right? Right. I find it very interesting. And I think it proves that the metallic copper is healthy because it's been healthy for 1000s of years and In an ancient culture that they use it, in fact, I decided to look up copper in history just for kicks and giggles in my book, and what I found was that Malachite has healing lore attached to it. Malachite is a copper carbonate mineral that in ancient times, they would powder into dust and use it for healing all sorts of things. And the healing lore behind copper Malachite is almost identical to all the positive things we get in our modern era from our modern research on what positive things that copper does for us. It's absolutely astounding. It was so good just looking up Malachite, and all these different websites and their healing lore, like Malachite is the stone that gives greater insights and power and mental clarity. And I'm like "Really?" that's exactly what I feel taking the copper sulfate, greater mental power, greater insights, more capacity, put things together, it was fascinating. I just loved it. I had to just quote from these websites without any intervention at all, because it was so good once you once you get to the point, that point the book you've already gone through and seeing all the things that copper does, so I don't have to then hammer it over the head. I just quoted from them at the end. I'm like, isn't that amazing that the ancients knew all this about copper. It's not that our science has proved up what they've done. They knew what we should have known all along was really the bigger thing

Matthew Blackburn 2:06:29
Wow, that's dangerous because I'm getting back into minerals. actually used to collect them on a mountain back in the day. But yeah, now that I'm building my my bathtub, maybe I'll put some Malachite in there, that would be super cool. I don't know how much of a difference it would make.

Jason Hommel 2:06:49
So,Malachite is absolutely beautiful. I think I have a specimen over here somewhere I think I do. I'll show you put it in my face. It's this little green thing. So when I read that in my book, of course, I had to go out and buy myself a little piece of Malachite just I just have because I was just so fascinated. And then you know, of course the fascination wears off. And now I get to talk about the book. Thank you so much for inviting me on your show. It's I'm having such a good time.

Matthew Blackburn 2:07:19
Oh, this is awesome. Yeah. Well, it's fascinating. A frequent guest on my show Atom Bergstrom, he has it from his mentor, he learned about Lepidolite which is made of lithium. And so it's so interesting over time that people would put these rocks and water and you know get basically a microdose of their minerals. I guess Adams teacher Adano Ley would do that, put Lepidolite and water and just get a little micro hit of lithium. It's fascinating.

Jason Hommel 2:07:52
It is interesting. Yeah, Malachite is one of the great healing stones, probably one of the best and most powerful someone had some intereting words, that somebody said was "it adorbs into itself, the anxieties" and some of the some of the people and testimonials we've gotten the group are "So I've taken this copper and all my fears appeared to have vanished. I feel so much better". How can it affect my emotions that deeply this is wild stuff. It's just wild.

Matthew Blackburn 2:08:28
Wow. Yeah, I know. I Morley gets into the wordplay like fear F E. Iron increases your fear and copper.C U cure curiosity. It's all these words. It's interesting. I don't think it's a coincidence.

Jason Hommel 2:08:47
What could be that, you know, that he has sharpened up his brain, with the amount of copper he's taken over the last eight years, as well as, I think he's, he was much bigger on the cofactors than I was, like, I just was like, I'll just fix it with a truck I'll just take more. Because you know if it's not toxic, why not? Alright, so we just kind of came at the problem a little bit different, different ways, but we kind of got it the same result. We fixed our copper, and we love it

Matthew Blackburn 2:09:16
Yeah. I love the different perspectives. Let's see. Do you have time for like five more questions or so?

Jason Hommel 2:09:24
Oh, I sure do. Yes.

Matthew Blackburn 2:09:26
Awesome. Yeah, we covered a lot but copper supplementing while breastfeeding or pregnant? Research on that.

Jason Hommel 2:09:36
Yeah, I think that's very important. So this is a huge debate. I have between me and the copper toxicity advocates. They say that women who are pregnant will absorb more copper and that therefore their postpartum depression is because they've absorbed too much copper. Or as I say, No, all that copper went into the baby A woman probably lost a good two thirds of her copper supply. Because babies have 10 times the amount of copper in their bodies by weight. So if you're giving birth to a seven pound baby, it's almost like giving birth to a 70 pound adult in terms of its copper amount, which means 140 pound woman is going to lose half of the copper that she has. So if she's not absorbing copper better because of her estrogen, she's in a world of hurt, right? So I think postpartum depression is a depletion of copper and iodine because copper and iodine are so important to the neurological development of the baby. The mother then gets depleted in both. And both of these are such nerve restoring brain healing, things that cure depression. That's why postpartum depression sets in because the mother is depleted and iodine and copper. So I want to follow up your question with one more and it goes like this. The high iodine doctors, there's only three of them. Abraham Flechas and Brownstein and Flechas made a video, you could still find it. And about 13 minutes into his video on iodine. He talks about how in his practice, he has about 20 to 30 mothers who on the high iodine protocol gave birth to babies and these babies are so super smart. He estimates that the babies are approximately 40 IQ points higher than the parents 40 IQ points higher than the parents. Now there's also a study. There's several studies that iodine makes people smarter. But look, you want to know if it's good for moms to be on copper, copper is like iodine, it detoxes the fluoride, which is a neurotoxin, you should be doing this stuff as a young woman before you go out drinking and looking for your man, you know. Younger women and young people in general do not put nearly enough time and energy into their health. They're more interested in drinking and partying as a general rule. And it's really sad, because we often only take care to learn how to fix joint problems. After joint problems have said in that's what it was for me. When I was younger. I was like, Well, clearly I don't have arthritis. I'm too young. But what are my joint pains all about? I don't know, I'm just gonna keep ski racing. We're dumb when we're young. We need we have a big, big, big responsibility to teach the younger generation. You said, you said it's good that somebody my age and still have a brain about I had laughed so hard. Because you're right, you're right. When you're in your 30s, you have a lot of brain power, a lot of people in their 50s don't anymore. And you can run circles around them with a lot of ways. But women in their 20s, they need to get on iodine, they need to get on copper, I would love to see a copper revolution whereby we, the young women are producing children with 180 to 220 IQs. It's not out of the realm of possibility, you know, we know from a lot of different ways that society is being dumbed down. It's because we're being poisoned and copper depleted. So the only way to reverse it and have a copper revolution is that yes, mothers need to be doing these things that are good for their mental health, they need to be on iodine, they need to be on copper, they need to be on the 12. Those top three, you don't have to do everything when you're young. Right. But if you just did those three, imagine if you gained 40 IQ points from the iodine. I think copper is probably stronger as a of a brain nutrient than even iodine. And there's just more studies on it. Because there were iodine doctors who are prescribing it. There's no copper doctors, okay, there's just me. I'm the only guy in the world who's saying right now you should take more than 10 milligrams of copper a day. And there should be well, then maybe in a few years, there will be hundreds of bloggers saying this right? The sooner we do it, the better. There's no evidence of harm. Copper heals the nerves in so many ways. I feel great in my brain. So yes. And all the testimonials are like Oh, I'm so smarter on copper. The brain fog is gone. Why? You know, iodine and copper, they both kill fungus. They both detox fluoride. These things are plaguing all of us. So imagine if copper added another 40 IQ points. Imagine if people fix their B 12 and add another 10 to12 IQ points. We literally could have a generation of Smarter children. And that's what I look forward to seeing in my old age.

Matthew Blackburn 2:14:45
That's amazing. I meant to ask you Jason earlier with making the copper sulfate. Do you have to use distilled water or could it be reverse osmosis water?

Jason Hommel 2:14:56
Ya you can use any. I considered that right. And I was such an idiot when I when I wrote that, but I just obviously pure is better, right? And distilled is the most pure and I just went there, I failed to consider the fact that not everybody has distilled water on hand. And in fact, if you even made it with tap water, look, the amount of tap the amount of fluoride in the tap water is going to be so small compared to the copper, you know, a little two ounce bottle is going to have 1182 milligrams of copper on average if you make the way that I make it. So that's one milligram per drop. And it's going to have far less than 0.7 milligrams per liter in tap water fluoride. So how will make it with fluoride water doesn't care it will still be dramatically detoxing not only that fluoride, but any other fluoride in your body. You can even probably make it with sewer water, but you don't have to do go that crazy with it.

Matthew Blackburn 2:15:49
Well, this is a good one. And we kind of talked about this a little bit before we started recording. Do you need copper filled up the for using oxygen or hydrogen therapies? Because I know I get asked every day about was it chlorine Dioxin? MMS, I've never taken it. I had my two friends projectile vomit from taking that stuff. Yes, the Jim Humble. Really powerful oxidizer. It's like the it's like the poor man's ozone, essentially. But yeah, how important do you think copper is to to those therapies?

Jason Hommel 2:16:29
So, one of the slanderous things they say about copper? The slanderous mechanism of actions of harm is that they say it creates oxidative damage. I believe that that is actually been shown to happen only under copper deficiency, not copper sufficiency, and certainly I'm not under copper toxicity, which doesn't even exist, so. But they don't even believe in their own damage of oxidative oxidative damage, because, according to the theory, it sets in right when people are dying. The hospital system never gives people antioxidants, right when they're dying. And if they did believe their own theory, that's what they would do. And the top number one antioxidant that they should give or would give if they believed their own theory would be copper. So they don't even have their slanderous stories straight when it comes to trying to slander copper, because even if they believed their own slanders theory, the solution would be copper. They're idiots. So to answer your question, which is, which is should I do copper, and you could do a proper therapy before hydrogen peroxide? I would say the answer is yes. Because copper makes a ton of different antioxidants that are protective. So yeah, you should go ahead and do copper first.

Matthew Blackburn 2:17:43
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I interviewed my friend Charles that that sells an ozone generator. And he said, that, I think is based on Frank Shallenberger work which is the one of the world's ozone guys. He says, You can't cause oxidative stress, unless it's over a pH of nine which I think is hard to find in our body. Usually, it's lower than that. So yeah, there's a lot of misconceptions about these oxidative therapies, I think, well,

Jason Hommel 2:18:17
you know, if you just read the testimonials for hydrogen peroxide, and that you find them all over the web, like you can buy hydrogen peroxide and Amazon, there's 1000s of testimonials there, you can just look up any copper supplement, read the testimonials there. There's power in the testimonials, the science is one thing, but when people are actually getting healed from these things, that's the real power. And, you know, Amazon has problems because, you know, they're liberal, and they believe in censorship, but at the same time, and they did censor political views. They helped censor political views, they took rumble offline, but their testimonials in products, like copper supplements and hydrogen peroxide prove the effectiveness of these therapies. How else do you get 1000s of testimonials of people saying the same thing. I almost took the time. But I wanted to get the book out, I almost took the time to start culling through all these testimonials. And then try to say that well the number of people that say that copper is boosting their brain is X number and the number but I was like get the book out there. People can read the testimonials for themselves. Maybe I'll that'll be in version two. It was more important to get the book out. But those testimonials are very important. It's part of the free market expression of ideas. They're not yet being censored. It's amazing what you can find out there. The proof of the effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide therapies and ozone therapies is right at our fingertips. Somebody quoted me in my book the other day, they said, you know, "in the age of information, ignorance is a choice" - Jason Hommel, like that. It's hard though. We're also living in an age of disinformation but disinformation is dying so fast. That there resorting to censorship and what's amazing is what hasn't been censored. Like, in order for them to censor things, they have to first teach an army of idiots that they need to censor it. And right now, they haven't taken the time to teach an army of idiots to censor the information about copper. Because so far I'm the only guy is too new. So that's awesome. That's a good more power. Good point. Um, have you looked into mercury? Jason, because we had a question here. Should I pause copper intake? Well, getting mercury fillings removed, probably want to increase it. So you should take copper because copper, will help detox mercury. I have a couple of little points on that. But first of all, copper and zinc together will each make Metallothioneins , which is one of those metallic enzymes that detoxes mercury and aluminum and all the rest. So I have a guy on my forum, his name is I'm not gonna say his name. Well, maybe I will. But no, I'm not gonna say his name. But the point is, he said that he believed he was Mercury toxic, because he had 400 cans of tuna when he had forced contricted diet, and that much tuna is of course as a source of mercury. So then he started the copper and I said, Well, if it's mercury, probably I'll stick a little selenium and also a little iodine and be real strict there through diet. You're also battling fungus, don't eat any sugar be real strict do it. And his testimony was some of the best testimonials we have. He was suffering some mild neurological damage that completely went away in about a month on taking about 20 to 30 milligrams of copper per day along with Selenium. Selenium was also a part of what detoxes mercury. Along with I think it was also taking some iodine, maybe also some zinc. And those all help so yeah, start the copper right away. Do you don't have to wait.

Matthew Blackburn 2:21:54
Awesome. This is a good one. Is there a type of copper that doesn't turn your skin green? Is that a bad reaction? I know you said it just concentrates in that area. Whether it's a bracelet or necklace, or

Jason Hommel 2:22:07
maybe rose gold. Rose Gold is a form of gold, it's mixed with copper, and it probably doesn't turn the skin green. I'm not quite sure what the ratio is to make rose gold. But I know rose gold is basically copper and gold. It probably doesn't turn the skin green. I don't know why though but,

Matthew Blackburn 2:22:29
Well, it's interesting how a lot of things we think are pure just mixes of many different metals, like mercury fillings, just like 48% Mercury, but there's tin and all these other things in it. What about zeolite? Jason, I'm sure there's a lot of things that deplete copper. Right now there's a like an MLM product trs that's really popular. I get asked every single day about it and Morley said it depletes copper, zeolites like a clay. I used to take it. I'd imagine that clays chelate, heavy metals, but also minerals as well like copper.

Jason Hommel 2:23:11
Yeah, I would. I would deflect Morley on this. If he thinks that trs depletes copper then it probably does. I haven't studied that yet. I just know that people are taking trs for a reason they're trying to detox, copper is probably a far more powerful detoxification mineral than people have ever given it credit for. And I would just say you know detox with copper. You know, I mentioned the list of five neurotoxins in our bodies that we have greater amount of than in than our copper. And these are, you know, fluoride and iron, excess iron and bromide and lead and aluminum and we have all five of those on our body each at levels higher than our copper, and copper fortunately, detoxes all five of those. You just have to take enough and not be scared of it. And I believe I don't think trs even makes those claims. But I'll make those claims about what copper does. And what is trs costs versus what copper costs. Copper is three cents a month. You know, copper is really where it's at. That's awesome.

Matthew Blackburn 2:24:25
That's awesome. Well, I think you you covered a lot of the questions here and for the rest I think people could could check out your book and yeah, I think the ebooks probably the way to go that way they can click on these hundreds of links throughout it.

Jason Hommel 2:24:43
Thanks but you know, people are buying people are buying the paperback more, I think because they just want something that won't be censored in the future.

Matthew Blackburn 2:24:51
Right? That's kind of part of partly my idea of building my my library of books is you know, if the internet ever goes down, I'll have Have you know decades of books to read

Jason Hommel 2:25:05
You know, I haven't thought about that in a long time that the internet in case the internet goes down. People used to say that all the time the whole reason the internet was this thing was it was supposed to be more robust in case they attacked the phone system. So that things can be routed in multiple different ways and the internet being so big now it's more robust than the phone system so I don't fear it getting getting taken down anymore.

Matthew Blackburn 2:25:29
Hmm, that's great. Yeah, yeah, my focus is on power security, which I'm halfway there I'm still relying on propane. So I don't consider myself fully off grid until you know, start burning trees in my generator. But to me, power security and food security are are paramount.

Jason Hommel 2:25:50
No, I think probably i Hey, I used to be a prepper I used to have $10,000 worth of prepared food back in my day when I had a ton of money and What's odd is I don't have those fears anymore. This could be a symptom of my copper toxicity.

Matthew Blackburn 2:26:09
I love it. My whole thing is like not be afraid just prepare for the worst and hope for the best kind of thing. Yeah.

Jason Hommel 2:26:17
Exactly my capacity to prepare is a little little bit weaker these days than it used to be. But that's alright.

Matthew Blackburn 2:26:23
Well, I think I think you're halfway there with with filling your body with copper

Jason Hommel 2:26:29
Well, you know, what's the thing Why do you want to stock up because we don't want to run out right well, I don't want to run out of copper in my body either. So you know, we are preparing in each our own separate ways. I've got a big store of copper inside me now see.

Matthew Blackburn 2:26:43
I love it. Yeah, I think this summer a few beehives going. So I'm excited to get my first harvest of of honey. That's one of my favorite things. I feel like people over overlook your store honey forever. Awesome. Well I think that's that was amazing. And people can find you would you say the Facebook group is the place to go.

Jason Hommel 2:27:14
I think the Facebook group is the place to go because you know, that's free and then get the vast majority of the information there. In fact, what I'm doing is I'm reading through all the chapters in my book and posting everything online, so the whole thing will be free. And with copper as cheap as it is I'm hoping to really create a revolution here in health among people so that we're no longer lied to. So we have better brain power across the country. So we can solve some big problems across this country. You know, a stronger population, mentally, I think, is what we need for national security. Stop cultural decline, there are a lot bigger problems out there, that get solved only when tackled at the individual level. Trying to ask the bureaucrats in Washington to change anything is futile. When when if in fact they are also as copper deficient and mentally challenged as as, as the rest of the population. We have to we have to take our charge for our own health. Wouldn't you know what's amazing is that the US RDA for copper came out of a desire of prisoners to get real nutrition. So they sued the government for for nutritional for actual nutritional meals. So then the government had to decide what was nutritional. So then they came up with RDA A's are the recommended daily allowance allowance. Okay, that's for prisoners. So prisoners get the bare minimums of the RDA. And people out there in real world land if you ask them, What are you getting your, your bare minimums? They're not. And even the bare minimums are fraudulently and weakly established, and need to be a lot higher. So you know, hopefully, when people take charge of their own health, and fix the biggest problems that are out there, and get dramatic results, I'm getting dramatic healing results. And then when people share it, I'm really hoping for nothing less than a revolution here. That's what I'm hoping for.

Matthew Blackburn 2:29:15
I love it. And Jason also has a website revealing fraud.com You could check out articles and there's a copper quickstart guide there. And do you plan on doing consulting or group coaching or anything like that are anything in the books

Jason Hommel 2:29:32
Right now I'm doing occasional individual consulting on an individual basis if needed. But you know, there's a lot of people already in the group have healed so much with copper, they know what's going on, and they can help answer people's questions and point people to the quickstart guide. And, you know, everyone's like, Well, can I take this copper? Can I take that copper you can, you know, but just, it's so much better if you didn't make it so you can apply it to the skin In bypass pass nausea and why pay 60 bucks when you can make it yourself for three cents come on

Matthew Blackburn 2:30:06
yeah, and the recipe to make it is in the Quick Start Guide so it's boiling

Jason Hommel 2:30:12
I made a video where I'm actually made it. It took literally one minute for me to make it it's so fast

Matthew Blackburn 2:30:20
That's great. Yeah, it seems like an easier process than I used to make a transdermal magnesium oil.

Jason Hommel 2:30:32
You don't even have to boil the water if you don't want to, but I don't know why I still do. Just do habit.

Matthew Blackburn 2:30:38
Does it make it faster for the reaction or the water hot?

Jason Hommel 2:30:41
Well, it's if you use a yeah, probably just makes it faster if you don't boil it. I don't know why you have to boil it. What can I say? What do I add the step? You know like maybe you have to hake the bottle 150 times if it's not boiled and of using boil water you shake the bottle 40 times that's the only difference.

Matthew Blackburn 2:31:03
Interesting. Yeah, I'm going to try it out. Especially the transdermal that sounds like a fun experiment. And what does it turn your skin blue? Kind of or?

Jason Hommel 2:31:14
I have it on my face right now. It might turn my grays a little blue sometimes but and it can stain your clothes blue. But if you wash your clothes with vinegar comes right out. Yeah, that's an interesting question. I forgot failed to mention that. If you don't use vinegar, it won't come out. But vinegar cuts through things like crazy. So that totally works.

Matthew Blackburn 2:31:37
That's awesome. Right on, Jason. Stick around as as we close out the show. Thanks so much for coming on and sharing, sharing your wisdom about Copper. It was a lot of fun.

Jason Hommel 2:31:50
I, I was a little nervous before the show, but I knew I knew my subject. And I you know, you're a fantastic interviewer. And I appreciate so much the time.

Matthew Blackburn 2:31:59
Oh, of course. So that was great. Thank you, Jason. All right, stick around. So we close it out. Okay. That is all for today's show. I took a lot of notes. I don't know about you guys. It seems like Jason's done a lot of experiments with supplementation. And I have as well, but not the specific protocols that he's done. And the boron one to me is really fascinating. For years that was putting 20 mule team, borax in the bathtub. And I still think that's a good practice. Boron has so many incredible effects. Like I mentioned that study, there's nothing boring about boron, and there's many more, but the functions of that trace mineral are really interesting. And he also found it interesting that oysters can cause a copper deficiency because I think people tend to look at whole foods as only balancing. But I think that's a really interesting concept that whole foods could actually create imbalance, like the study that he referenced on oysters, causing the copper deficiency, think the woman was eating like 10 to 15 a day for several years. But if someone lived by the ocean, that would be easy to do, right? So it's really about balance that always comes back to that, even with whole foods and realizing that you can create imbalances, even with eating whole foods, and that's the whole point of supplementation. That's why I started my company, Mitolife. And I think it's interesting that Jason is kind of catering to people that don't have a lot of money to spend. Because if you buy copper supplement, that's one more thing to buy. And especially if you're getting up there in the milligrams north of, say 50 milligrams a day, it could really start to add up. After I recorded this with Jason, I actually made his copper sulfate solution. And I rubbed it on my skin and I definitely felt a little boost. I think that could be a great therapy to use in conjunction with a greater protocol. I definitely think that retinols really important. Since putting more emphasis on retinol. I've noticed a massive increase in my energy and resilience to cold, which I'm up here in North Idaho in the winter. It gets down there. And when I'm outside working with the goats or the animals, I definitely need energy to withstand the cold and generate that internal heat. And Retinol is a really overlooked nutrient that works with copper to load into that ceruloplasmin protein, the protein that has 1046 amino acids in it. And that's called active copper. I really love all the intricacies and nuances and details. There's just so many pieces in the body that work together. And from interviewing geniuses on this podcast and putting together the dots over the years, it seems like there's a really intelligent design to deplete us of nutrients from our food, and the water supply. Meanwhile, giving us supplements at the eye level, at the end cap, the health food store thrown in your face on the news, the last two years, take your ascorbic acid, take your zinc, take your vitamin D, take your fish oil, it's all of the things that deplete what we're already deficient in, which is vitamin E, retinol, magnesium, copper, it's really fascinating and it goes on potassium. They're depleting us of a lot of nutrients. But there are some main ones. And I love that Jason's really hammering down on this copper one, because this copper toxicity nonsense has to stop. There's way more to the conversation. I think retinol has to be talked about. And I think all of the studies that Jason referenced need to be talked about. It's amazing that 5000 milligrams of copper creates liver damage in animals. That's a lot. It would be hard to dose, that much copper. So check out Jason's work. I think he's doing great stuff. on Facebook. The group is the copper revolution, healing with minerals. And Jason's website is revealing fraud.com I'll put the link to both of those below. and my website is Matt hyphen blackburn.com. A lot of people always ask what's the CLF protocol? Where can I read about your thoughts on polyunsaturated fats, and that's under the blog section. It's been a few years since I've posted on there, I'll get back to it. At some point. I've just been so busy getting acquainted with homesteading. There's so much to learn. But I've definitely learned new information in the last few years that I would like to convey on the website and the nuances with highly unsaturated fatty acids, which you can say DHA, EPA and alpha linolenic acid. Those do contribute to lipo fustian in a state of iron overload and vitamin E deficiency. I really think that vitamin E supplementation is not emphasized enough in the natural health world. And that's why I sell mixed tocopherol one under my brand Mito life, there's such a big push for PUFA supplements, which pure PUFA supplements to me have no benefit, like fish oil, or algae oil or krill oil or shark oil or whatever it is. There's no benefit to just taking concentrated omega threes and in fact you can actually contribute to progressive lipofuscinocis or lipofuscin or age pigment, but something like cod liver oil that isn't stripped of its vitamins and then fortified with synthetic A and D could have benefits especially for someone with excess hydrogen peroxide, chronic fatigue, low hemoglobin, high cholesterol so many things can be caused by just simply a retinol deficiency. It's all about finding balance and we've been thrown so far out of balance they've depleted us tanked us in fact, of retinol because d3 supplementing vitamin D tanks your retinal level. And if you don't have retinal, you can't load copper into its active forms ceruloplasmin . And then if you lose vitamin E, and vitamin K2, you're just in for a world of hurt, and getting diagnosed over and over with various different names. And you guys know how the story goes, it just gets really frustrating. So I expanded on that last point a little bit in my latest Mitolife Academy live if you guys want to go and check that out. And as I mentioned, my brand is mitolife can find that at M I T O L I F E .co . I have some really cool products up there, magnesium, that we just released, which is really nice to take with breakfast. And those are amino acid bound forms of magnesium. And remember, if you have magnesium and copper in your mitochondria, most likely you'll be able to make energy. So that's it for the show. Hope you guys are staying healthy and strong with whatever's going around. And if you're dealing with something, make sure that copper is coming in consistently retinols coming in all of the usual things whole food, vitamin C, magnesium, potassium, I've been really hitting the adrenal cocktail hard multiple times a day. And I feel that so much. Just make sure to keep your stress low while supporting your system with all the foundational things. That's it. See you guys next Friday. Stay supercharged