Gan Sasaki | Mitolife Radio Ep #178

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
systemic enzymes, enzymes, eat, people, fibrin, probiotics, food, digest, stomach, bacteria, digestive enzymes, capsule, works, body, protein, supplements, small intestine, gan, talking, snake venom

Matthew Blackburn 00:19
You're listening to Episode 178 of Mitolife Radio. I'm Matt Blackburn and today I'm interviewing Gan Sasaki I met Gan several years ago when I was attending a Natural Products Expo in California. And we really hit it off talking about enzyme therapy, and specifically systemic enzymes. Gan's professional, official title is he's the Director of Business Development for a laboratory asset management provider in life science and the biopharmaceutical industry. He really knows his stuff about enzymes, whether it be systemic enzymes, digestive enzymes, and even spore forming organisms, sometimes called spore based probiotics, which he also talks about in this interview. So Gan talks about fibrin fibrinogen, what makes up scar tissue, why systemic enzymes have to be enteric coated, and why you should take them on an empty stomach. I asked Gan about the snake venom myth that I heard several years ago in the raw vegan community that if you get bit by a venomous snake, you could just mega doset enzymes and neutralize the venom. So I asked his opinion on that. So whether you're taking digestive enzymes, systemic enzymes, or spore based probiotics, this is an interesting interview to listen to. Here is Gan Sasaki. All right. We're here with Gan Sasaki. Welcome to the show.

Gan Sasaki 02:06
Thank you, sir. Great to be here.

Matthew Blackburn 02:09
Yeah, great to see you again. It's been several years, I don't know how many. We saw each other last at the Natural Products Expo West. And really hit it off talking about enzyme therapy. Really love your your passion for that. And I was wondering how, how long have you been researching enzymes? And how did you even get into it?

Gan Sasaki 02:31
Well, I've been studying enzymes since I was I started, you know, studying enzymes when I was at the University of Tennessee, I was in the cancer research back then. And that's how I came to know about enzymes. And then fast forward, you know, 25 years, and then here I am today, I was working for this another company that you know, produced enzymes. And, you know, I learned really learned more about enzymes and probiotics. So with the basics in life science, you know, and then I relearned everything, everything from the science of enzymes, to up to date science of enzymes to sales and distribution of enzymes and manufacturing of course.

Matthew Blackburn 03:21
At the University of Tennessee, when you're researching cancer did, did they talk about or did you learn about, like, say systemic enzymes?

03:30
Well, enzymes in general, you know, and I know what it is, and, you know, and people talk about enzymes, like it's a magic bullet, but it's it's really you know, just a catalyst of something that helps reaction take place. So, none of us would be here where we are today on earth without enzymes, you know, no reaction can happen without enzymes. And if they did happen, then that will be kind of scary. It's you know, if you hold it like a match in front of you, it doesn't spontaneously combust right? Because you know, in order for that reaction the combustion to take place, it has to go over this certain amount of energy to initiate that reaction and then you know, once the energy, you go over that hump of energy, then you know, it's then the combustion starts, right? So, same thing happens in your body with enzymes, you know, you have enzymes that help reactions in the body, your body just doesn't, you know, start digesting food all by itself, your body just does not use the chemical reactions like growth for example, you know, you know, the child cannot grow without enzymes, you know, because the reactions don't just happen. So you add enzymes to the formula, all these reactions, and then all these magical you know, chemical reactions start to happen. And then you know, that's when you when you're able to digest food properly, when you are able to incorporate those nutrients into your body so children can grow, you know. So, you know, that's what enzymes are. And, you know, that's what I have been studying.

Matthew Blackburn 05:19
That's great. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, I was raw vegan for, I think it was three years, I was mostly fruitarian just eating, you know, 10-20-30 bananas a day, and just boxes of oranges and dates. And while I was doing that experiment, I was working at a juvenile detention facility for children that were you know, that did crimes or whatever. And my favorite, my favorite thing was science class, because I bring in these cool videos to show the kids and I think everyone remembers seeing that digestion, one, right, where they stick a camera down the someone's intestinal tract, and they're showing, like the bile squirting out and it looks super gross, right?

06:11
It didn't look gross to me. When I when I saw that, you know, I thought it was cool.

Matthew Blackburn 06:19
That's kind of what got me-

06:22
But yeah. But it's same thing. Same thing with me, you know, so if you're talking about, like, you know, science projects like that, then, you know, my interest in, you know, enzymes and chem, science goes all the way back to like, when I was probably in the first grade, you know, my oldest sister bought me this book of medicine, you know, how human body works. So that's when I first got into, you know, all these reactions that are taking place in the body, you know, how people grow? And, you know, how hair grows, and the nails grow? And, and why we have hair and nails and things like that. So, yes, it goes back for decades, you know, my interest in science like this.

Matthew Blackburn 07:08
That's awesome. That's really cool. Yeah, and one of the reasons why brought up that my raw vegan experiment is the argument that a lot of raw foodist make, whether they're eating raw meat, or raw fruits and vegetables, there's kind of both camps right now, in the diet, dietary extremes, they both make the argument that when we cook our food, it kills the enzymes, Is there truth to that?

07:37
Well, it is true, because, you know, enzymes are proteins. And if you heat up the, the proteins they break down, you know, and I have heard of this, the argument before, raw foodologists. They make their argument, but I don't necessarily agree with that. Yes, it is true that, you know, in wild animals they don't cook food, you know, they just eat it. That's true. But you know, human bodies, and you know, wild animals too, they have enzymes that actually digest food that they eat. So there may be some enzymes that help with the decomposition of you know, the food, but I'm not too worried about, you know, destroying them. For one thing, you know, you produce enzymes. And then in like, these days, you have very good enzymes, like supplements to help with the digestion, if you need those things, and, you know, I'm one of those people, I do take digestive enzymes every day. So I'm not too worried about you know, eating food raw. On the other hand, I think you should enjoy your food, you know, you should not punish yourself by eating something that is not as tasty, you know, when you eat these foods. Now, if you like raw food, great, you know, keep doing it, you know what, why stop doing it, if you if you like it great. But you know, for, for most people, they enjoy, you know, the taste of the food. And then, you know, in order to make that happen, you have to cook it somehow, right? So, you know, I would not worry too much about it and I think it's just a drop in the bucket. You know, this, this enzyme is found naturally in the food that helps with the decomposition. I think it's just a drop in the bucket compared to we know what your body can produce and what you can take as a supplement.

Matthew Blackburn 09:32
Yeah, I agree with that. Because there's different types right? And what we're talking about here would be the digestive type right that our pancreas makes?

Gan Sasaki 09:42
Pancreas and many other organs Yes. Like your mouth produces some enzymes too.

Matthew Blackburn 09:49
Yeah, it's mostly amylase, right to digest carbohydrates?

Gan Sasaki 09:52
Correct. And that there's an interesting side story about that, you know, like when you eat rice, for example, or potatoes, you know, the more you chew, the sweeter it gets, because, you know, it increases glucose, the production of glucose from the food, the starch that you eat. So I read about that, you know, we talked about, how we started the, you know, getting interested in enzymes, but, you know, I read that in that little book that my oldest sister gave me when I was in the first grade. And I thought, wow, this is very, very interesting. So this is why you chew, you know, it's sort of like, it's interesting, because it's nature's way of, you know, telling people to chew food properly. You know, and then maybe we'll cover this later in this podcast but, you know, the more you chew the food, the smaller the food particle becomes, and it's, it becomes easier for your stomach and the small intestine to keep digesting that food that you're swallowing.

Matthew Blackburn 10:59
I've heard that about liquids even to that you should chew your liquids, whether you're drinking milk, or a smoothie, that if you just gulp it down without you know, swishing it around for a few seconds or whatever makes it makes a difference.

Gan Sasaki 11:14
Might help. But like I said, you know, the amount of the amylase that your mouth produces, it's probably not that much compared to you know, what your large intestine can do. Large intestine is a very, very long, I'm sorry, I keep saying large intestine small intestine, small intestines is very, very long and, you know, it helps with the digestion of fat, you know, and then, sugar, so, yeah, it's good if you enjoy it, and it's again, you know, that you if you swish it in your mouth, you know, that sweet stuff in your mouth, you know, it's probably, you can enjoy your food more that way.

Matthew Blackburn 11:53
Have you ever heard of the story of Beaumont? Yeah, William Beaumont 1822. Basically, there was like, a man that was shot in the abdomen, and it left like a huge hole there. And it didn't close up. And so this, the surgeon, Beaumont decided to experiment on the man, because supposedly he was willing, he would, like, have him eat different foods, and then watch how long like the transit time like how long it took to go through and how well it digested. And it was a pretty gruesome experiment. But, you know, I think going back to the cooked versus raw food, I think some cooked food digested faster than the raw food. So it's just curious if you ever heard that story.

Gan Sasaki 12:45
No, but are you saying that they were able to see inside his stomach?

Matthew Blackburn 12:49
Yeah. In real time,

Gan Sasaki 12:55
I saw something like that, when I was at Louisiana State University, they have a very good dairy program there. And they have an actual dairy farm out there. And they back then they had a cow with the little window on the side of the stomach, and you can actually see, look into the stomach of the cow, the cow has like four different stomachs. And then, you know, you can actually open up this window and then take out what's inside those stomachs. And then you can see how, you know, the cow actually digests, you know, the hay that they eat, which was very, very interesting. But no, I don't know about this story that you just told me about.

Matthew Blackburn 13:39
Yeah, I've I've three goats here. I think I've told you. It's so so interesting to just see them kind of regurgitate their, you know, their grasses or alfalfa and chew that, that cud and then, you know, just back and forth. Their digestive system so interesting.

Gan Sasaki 13:59
It's amazing how nature works. Yeah. You have to understand because, you know, it takes time to digest the grass. You know, I can imagine that and then you know, I don't think it's the, the goat or cow that's actually digesting the grass. It's the micro organisms living in their stomach, that's digesting the grass. So it takes a lot of time. And that's why, you know, for cows, they have four stomachs. I'm not sure about goats, you know, if they have multiple stomach, so that, you know, it goes down and then you know, you regurgitate and then they chew again, and then they swallow again and they regurgitate it again and chew again. So it's a cooperation between you know, them and micro organisms. It's the nature's like, really, really interesting in that sense.

Matthew Blackburn 14:52
I'm glad you said that. That's a good point. Yeah, that the woman that I bought these goats from she told me she was educating me about A goat care and she said always give them access to sodium bicarbonate, baking soda. This let them free graze on baking soda. Is that because they use that to soothe their rumen if it you know, if they're experiencing digestive upset, they'll just lick some baking soda and it calms their, their rumen.

Gan Sasaki 15:22
Interesting, you know, that's, that's interesting, I don't know how that works. But you know, the bicarbonate is something that you produce, humans produce, it's produced and released into the duodenum, which is just after stomach. And that is used to increase the pH level of chyme, which is the half digested food from stomach. So I don't know how that works. But yeah, yeah, it works. Yeah, why not?

Matthew Blackburn 15:54
So we kind of covered digestive enzymes a little bit, are the other, would you say there's three main categories like digestive, metabolic, and systemic?

Gan Sasaki 16:04
Well, the products that we used to sell digestive enzymes and systemic enzymes, those are the two major products that, you know, I studied. And digestive we just covered and systemic is the one that, you know, works on fibrin build up. So fibrin, you know, causes a lot of, you know, problems if It's unchecked. So it's normal to have fibrin so when you cut yourself, for example, okay? Your body tries to repair it, and then you know, fibrin plays a very, very critical role in you know, fixing your injury. But if it goes unchecked, and if it becomes chronic, that's a problem, because it won't go away. In fact, it makes the situation even worse, the presence of fibrin. So the ones that, you know, we used to, you know, produce, one is digestive and then the other one is systemic.

Matthew Blackburn 17:14
And why would fibrin go chronic and not break down? D you know the mechanism that the body- is it just excess inflammation and the body can't catch up or something? Or?

Gan Sasaki 17:28
Kind of, yes. So you know, when you have injuries, for example, if you're a smoker, okay, you, you know, the smoke, nicotine gets into the circulation, and it really damages the lining of the, the blood vessels. And as you can imagine, but blood vessels, especially the inside of the blood vessels, they're very, very sensitive, you know, and then if you know, something like nicotine can cause micro lesions along the blood vessels. So, what happens with that is that you know, your body needs to repair it right. So, what the body you know, like platelets come along, try to form the outer barrier, and then you know, fibrinogen, which is always circulating in your body, which is a precursor to fibrin, it comes along and he tries to form a barrier over this micro lesion so that it can be repaired while your blood flows over it, you know, so it sort of isolates that micro lesion from the flow of the blood, if that makes sense. And then after the repair, okay after this under the cover of fibrin, very thin fibrin something called plasminogen comes along and then you know, plasminogen is activated and becomes plasmin, which is a natural enzyme that your body produces, that melts fibrin that fibrin that was protecting you know, that the repair area, the barrier. So plasmin comes along and then digests that barrier and then removes it right? So, you can go back to the normal blood vessel, if that makes sense. Now, what happens with the chronic case is that plasmin cannot do that. And then you know, as you can imagine, this is a very, very complex process, and then you know, if something goes wrong, and then if plasmin cannot keep up with this removal of the barrier, fibrin barrier, what happens is that fibrin barrier starts to catch some of the debris circulating in the blood. Right Blood is not just liquid, you know, there are a lot of solid materials circulating in the blood, right? You know, we all know about like red blood cells that carries oxygen to various parts of the body, right? We know about white blood cells we know about platelets, we know about all these different things like circulating in the blood, right? Those are solid matters. And then there's also fat that's circulating in the circulation, there's nicotine circulating in the bloodstream, right? All these things can get caught in this fibrin barrier, which has like sort of like a lattice like structure, and then it touches those things, and then it starts to build on top of each other. And, you know, the end result is what we commonly call a plaque. Right. And then plaque eventually either blocks the blood vessels, which is not good, or it sort of sloughs off that the force of the blood circulation forces some of this plaque to come off, and then it's, it's carried to another part of the circulation, where he can block the small blood vessels. Right. So you know, when when platelet cannot keep up with something like that, and then it just becomes chronic, you know, and then it causes more inflammation, and then you know, that end result is not good. And that's when you start to like to take systemic enzymes, which helps with theplasmin. dissolve all these chronic inflammation, chronic buildup of fibrin.

Matthew Blackburn 21:44
That was an awesome explanation. Thanks for that. So you're saying that systemic enzymes can kind of act as a plasmin surrogate, or replacement, if plasmin isn't keeping up?

Gan Sasaki 21:57
It helps. Yes, definitely. So a couple of very, you know, well known systemic enzymes, number one is serrapeptase. That's very well known and well studied. There's another one called nattokinase, which is also very well known and well studied. And then there are a couple of other things that, you know, sometimes people talk about, but those are the two enzymes that I'm most familiar with serrapeptase, and nattokinase.

Matthew Blackburn 22:26
Yeah, there's lumbrokinase. I think Mercola sells that.

Gan Sasaki 22:31
I'm not too crazyabout that, that was from some earthworm, right.

Matthew Blackburn 22:45
Interesting and you don't think that one's is effective is is the serrapeptase and nattokinase?

Gan Sasaki 22:51
Well, the thing is, it may be effective, but it's not as well studied as nattokinase or serrapeptase. Those two are well studied, you know, a lot of people have studied it, and then you know, they have shown the effectiveness of those couple of enzymes. So, you know, I'm quite happy with that. I personally take those things. I used to take those every day. One capsule, every day, I used to take two capsules every day because I had this back pain. And then you know, it took me a few years, but the back pain subsided, and then I reduced the amount to one capsule. At one point I even stopped it, but the back pain came back. So I started taking just one capsules. And that's that's where I am right now. You know, just one capsule a day. And it's keeping you know, I don't feel that pain anymore on my back. And it's, it's very good. It's very effective. Lambrokindness, I'm not sure I've never tried it. But you know, when you Google, you'll notice the difference in the amount of study that is available out there. And like I said, you know, if it works for you, great stick with it. I know it's out there, a lot of companies are selling lumbrokinase. So if it's working great for you, stick with it. It's just that my personal preference is serrapeptase and nattokinase. That's all

Matthew Blackburn 24:14
That's great. Yeah, when I moved here, from California to Idaho, my neighbor told me that he was experiencing fibromyalgia. And I said, Hey, I sell systemic enzymes. You know, I think this would help you out. And so I just started giving him bottles, and he had a 90% reduction in pain. He told me in like a week or two like it was very quick and this is- he had this for years where his hands would just lock up and pretty, pretty quick turnaround. It's pretty cool.

Gan Sasaki 24:45
Yes, it's amazing what these thingscan do.

Matthew Blackburn 24:49
Because Fibromyalgia that's like a fibrin buildup disease, right?

Gan Sasaki 24:53
Yes, it's just a fibrin buildup, you know, like, different parts of the body. So that That's exactly what the systemic enzymes can do. And then you know, serrapeptase nattokinase, or lumbrokinase, what happens is that, you know, just as I explained a little bit earlier, they go in, and then just remove the excess build up of the fibrin that your body couldn't remove, which is plasmin, your plasmin just couldn't keep up with the fibrin build up. And then, you know, that's when you take systemic enzymes. My understanding is that, you know, this buildup of fibrin, it just sort of pinches the the nerve endings, and that's why you feel the pain. But, you know, by reducing that build up, you know, reduces the pressure on the nerve endings. And that's how you remove the pressure, which is much, much better than, you know, taking some of these western medications, Western medications, they just sort of cover up the pain, so the pain is still there, but you just sort of make yourself numb, so that you don't feel it, but your body's actually screaming out for help. Whereas the the enzymes, yes, it does take time, but you know, it's actually addressing the root cause of the pain. So just like I told you, you know, I had this back pain, I slipped on this concrete floor many, many years ago, probably, by now, it's probably like, 12 years ago, I slipped on the concrete floor. And then for seven years, I had this pain on the back, this sciatic pain running down my leg for many, seven years. And then I started taking a systemic enzymes, serrapeptase and nattokinase, one capsule each. So two capsules a day. And then I did that every single day. And then it took me about a year for the pain to go away to the point that I was not really bothered. And then it took me probably another one year for the pain to, you know, go almost completely away. If I were to come up with a number, I'd say about 99% gone. And then I just kept taking these capsules, you know, for following few years. And then now it's been, it's been like, what, five years now, I think. But you know, the pain is now completely gone, I couldn't sleep on the right side of my body, because it would start giving me a pain after like few minutes. But now I can just sleep all night on my right side of the body, and then it's still okay, now, is it completely gone? No, actually, it's still there. You know, but, you know, if I didn't know that I had this pain before, I probably I probably wouldn't even notice it, it's that small. So it actually works, and I'm pretty sure it works the same way with fibromyalgia, it's just fibrin build up all over the body. And then the great thing about the systemic enzymes is that it travels in your blood, so it goes everywhere in your body, wherever the pain is, it helps with the pain. Now, when there's a pain in your body, certain chemicals, cytokines are released by the cells in the body where the pain is. And this, you know, there are many, many different kinds of cytokines, which are signaling system and then you know, one of them causes the the blood stream to be porous. So what happens is that, you know, when the, the systemic enzymes get to that point, where the the bloodstream is slightly more porous than the rest of the body, it's easier for the systemic enzymes to get out right into the the tissue, where this Fibromyalgia is happening. And then it just starts to reduce that fibrin build up. And then you know, the broken up fibrin is carried away in your bloodstream, and then it's expelled from your body. So it takes time, you have to be patient, but, you know, it eventually resolves the pain. So like I said, you know, it may take a couple of years, three years, but you know, it will eventually go away. And then it's so much better than some of the painkillers of the Western medicine, which just number one covers up the pain when they're not addressing the root cause and number two, it can be addictive. Whereas the enzymes, it's not addictive at all

Matthew Blackburn 29:37
I used to be in the teaching field, I would see all these older teachers getting implants like rods in their back or their legs or like having things put in them because ,you know, they're breaking down. And I think back then I knew about enzyme therapy and they just would not listen and they're just you know, they get scared into That path by their doctor, right? Because it's just the authority figure, and I've never heard enzyme therapy, so it can't be effective. Yeah.

Gan Sasaki 30:09
Well, back then I'm not sure. You know, a lot of doctors, you know, they were trained, you know, to, like prescribe drugs, certain drugs, for pain, and then certain other drugs for other things. So that's what they're trained. And I guess they're just following the other training. But nowadays, you know, a lot of Western doctors, they're open to the idea of alternative medicine. And then, you know, if you have a doctor, and then if ever pain, you might as well speak with them and ask, you know, what they'd have to say. And then great thing about systemic enzymes, you can just buy it, you know, you can buy it on, you know, from from you, number one, you know, Mitolife, but you know, on other things, you know, you can also buy on Amazon, you know, you can just buy it without prescription, and then, you know, I just give it a try.

Matthew Blackburn 30:59
Are there are there contraindications, like with people on pharmaceuticals? Because I know, certain supplements, they can break down, like when I sell Shilajit the resin from from Russia, that contains fulvic acid that can potentiate or amplify the effects of pharmaceutical drugs, which can be very dangerous and so I was wondering if there's anything like that with systemic enzymes were? Does it just break down fibrin? Or can it also break down like pharmaceuticals?

Gan Sasaki 31:34
Well, great thing about enzymes is the is that they are very, very specific to certain substrates. So you know, the chances of them breaking down something is very, very minimal. I wouldn't worry about that. Now, one thing I would caution you is that if you're taking some sort of a blood thinner, like warfarin, for example, I would be cautious about using something like nattokinase, which is a very, very powerful fibrinogen. So you know, you don't want to over thin your blood. So if you're already taking blood thinner warfarin, for example, I would ask your doctor, and then I would, you know, be cautious not to overtake it. So here's a story, you know, that I can tell you, you know, I was, I'm a very, very healthy person, right, other than for that pain that I had, you know, I'm a very, very healthy person. And then one day, I was just trying to grab some, like a dish from the, in the kitchen, right, and I ended up hitting my finger, the back of my finger against this, this cupboard, right? It had a sharp corner and then I just nicked myself. And at that time I was taking, you know, I think at that time, I was increasing my dosage a little bit. So, you know, I was taking that nattokinase, and I was taking serrapeptase. And I think I was also taking a stronger version of serrapeptase we had, which had 130k (unintelligble), which is pretty strong. serrapeptase. So I was taking that, and then, you know, then I had this little nic on my finger. And then normally, what happens is that that little tiny nic, you know, the blood would clot and stop bleeding after like a couple of minutes, right? And then after an hour, you know, I wouldn't even think about it. What happens at that point was that, you know, my little tiny nic kept oozing, you know, and then a little tiny blood kept coming out even the following day, I had a little bandage on, I removed the bandage the following day, and it was still oozing, right? So I figured it was because of the nattokinase and its blood thinning effect, it reduces the fibrin inside the blood, right? So it makes it difficult for your body to repair that little tiny, tiny damage that I had on my finger. So, you know, it kept bleeding. And then you know, after two days, I thought I should just stop taking that nattokinase and then when I stopped taking that nattokinase, I guess it took another couple of days for the other nattokinase in the system to completely clear out. But after a couple of days, yes, it did finally stop, you know, oozing. It's not bleeding, but it was just losing a little tiny bit of blood. But it finally stopped. So yes, it's it's very effective. So I would just be careful about that. If you're if you're going to combine this with some sort of a Western medication, I would consult the doctor first. But that's just my personal story about the blood not clotting properly.

Matthew Blackburn 35:02
Interesting. Yeah, I know, the clotting factors. I thinkthey're partially dependent on vitamin K2. But I think there are also other nutrients involved with that. And you said it took a few days for nattokinase to completely leave the body? Do we know how long serrapeptase and nattokinase generally circulate? As there's my understanding, it's like six to 12 hours, but it sounds like it could be 24 or 48?

Gan Sasaki 35:29
Well, it's not like, you know, they suddenly go out, you know, there's something called Half Life, and then, you know, it just sort of diminishes slowly. And then, you know, it's not like, you know, after six hours, everything suddenly goes out of your system, it just goes out system slowly at a time. And then probably like, six hours sounds more like, you know, that's when the the amount of, you know, these enzymes circulate- I'msorry, that's the amount that is still remaining in your circulation. So you know, every six hours it has it, it goes down by half. So it still takes like, you know, a couple of days for the entire wall almost entire, you know, enzymes to be cleared. And that's another reason why you should take enzymes every day. If you want to have the benefit of enzymes.

Matthew Blackburn 36:26
Hmm, yeah. And I liked that you said you just took one or two, because I often start my day with three to six capsules of systemic enzymes. But I guess I'm doing it for the anti aging. Hopefully, I don't cut myself accidentally. But do you think there's a use for taking more? Because I've heard that with specific conditions, if you want faster results, you can just take more, and instead of waiting a year, maybe it's just three months.

Gan Sasaki 36:55
Sure. If you want to have the faster effect? Yes, definitely. So I'll just give you my myself as an example, as I had my back pain, right. So at the beginning, I was taking quite a bit, you know, just to see, you know how it goes. And then as the pain started to subside, I was kind of happy with the progress. So I started reducing the amount. Remember, you know, the more capsules you take, the more money you have to pay for these capsules. So, you know, you don't want to take more than necessary, right? So, yes, you just have to listen to your body. So by by that I'm you know, just watch the signs that your body is giving. So the blood oozing from my finger is a good sign that, you know, I was maybe taking too much capsules. So that's why I decided to reduce the capsules. You know, if the blood is not clotting on the surface, it was a good thing that you know, little tiny nic happened when it did happen, because, you know, I was able to see for myself on the surface that you know, the blood was not clotting, and the repair was not being properly done, you know, on the surface. But you know, same thing happens with the example that I gave earlier about nicotine, you know, circulating in the body that's causing micro lesions in your body. You know, if the body is not repairing itself on the surface, the same thing is happening inside your body. Right? So anytime you see something like this, yeah, try to think about you know, what's going on, and then try to adjust the amount of enzymes that you're taking.

Matthew Blackburn 38:33
That's great, I'm gone. Gan you talk a little bit about why systemic enzymes are enteric coated. So it's this, this capsule that protects it from the low pH of the stomach acid, right?

Gan Sasaki 38:47
Sure. enteric coating, as the name implies, is, you know, something that protects the, the enzymes from the stomach acid. Enzymes are made up proteins, and one of the functions of the stomach is to digest proteins, right? And in order to do that, proteins, kind of like like a roll that up, you know, a string, if you have a like a long string, and you just roll it up into a ball. That's what the protein looks like. It's a long string of amino acid molecules. And, you know, you roll them up, it just doesn't happen randomly actually follows the, you know, the interactions among the amino acids to our fold into a proper shape. But, you know, just for the sake of argument, let's just take a string and roll it up into a ball. That's what the enzyme looks like, or any proteins look like. And what happens inside the stomach is that you know, stomach acid, or hydrogen chloride to be more a little more specific. It breaks some of these bonds. You know, that's holding this ball together, and it's sort of unravels this ball into the original string, right and that's when the, the digestive enzymes can come along and then eat up, because enzymes, you know, they need to come in contact with the substrate that that it needs to work on. So you know, if it's a ball, then it can only work on the surface of the ball. But if it's a string, then it can work anywhere along that string so it speeds up the digestion. Now, the problem with that is that, you know, when you take something like systemic enzymes, which is a protein, it gets unraveled inside your stomach, right, so it's not a good thing. And then, you know, a lot of times it even gets digested. So, you know, it becomes nutrients at this point, you know, it's not functioning, it's not going to function as the systemic enzymes anymore, it becomes your nutrient, right? And then it goes into your duodenum, which is just past the stomach, that's when the, the bicarb- the bicarbonate is the introduced, and then that increases the the pH, right. So by this time, your systemic enzymes was it has already been digested, so it's not functional anymore. And even if it does survive the digestion, you know, it needs to come into the ball shape again. So it's not a good thing. So what you do, okay, what, what a lot of companies do is to protect the systemic enzymes by enteric coating. So it just coats the protein inside this, something that protects it from the effect of acid. And then it can go into a duodenum where the pH increases, at that point, this coating comes off, releasing the systemic enzymes that is inside. So at this point, the pH is already you know, near neutral, right? So it doesn't get the protein doesn't get destroyed at that point, right in duodenum after the stomach. And then systemic enzymes, in its original shape can be absorbed into your bloodstream from a small intestine, and then it can start circulating inside your body. So that is the importance of enteric coating, systemic enzymes, it protects it from getting digested, and ended up becoming a nutrient rather than systemic enzymes.

Matthew Blackburn 42:46
That was an awesome explanation. Yeah, it would be an expensive protein supplement, right? If you were to take them not coated. That's great. Yeah, cuz a lot of people ask, I think in the q&a, or the questions that listeners sent in, they asked about giving it to their pets like their cat or their dog. And I thought that I've read in studies that you can give systemic enzymes outside of enteric coating, they're just not as effective. Is that true? Or is it Are they completely ineffective?

Gan Sasaki 43:22
Well, systemic enzyme so like I said, it can be digested inside the stomach. That's why we recommend that you take systemic enzymes on this empty stomach. So what happens in the stomach is that you know, when you take these things on an empty stomach, when you know there's nothing in the stomach with just water, right, stomach does not sense anything that it needs to digest, and then it just puts the content of the stomach it just pushes it out into the small intestine, right without with minimal exposure to the acid you know, the residual acid inside the stomach. So that's why we recommend that you know, you take systemic enzymes with the on an empty stomach with nothing but water not not not like orange juice, you know, or some smoothies or something, you know, don't give stomach a chance to think about it and then tries to close up the other end of the stomach, you know, and then think about it, you know, let the the capsule the systemic enzyme capsule float around in this acid and then eventually open up inside the capsules, you know, just take it with water on an empty stomach and then you know, don't eat anything for at least 30 minutes, maybe 45 minutes but don't don't eat anything for that amount so that you know your systemic enzymes are completely in the small intestine.

Matthew Blackburn 44:52
Oh, that's great. Okay, awesome. Yeah, I often tell people to take it. Or I take it first thing in the morning, right? When I wake up, you know, because half hour isn't isn't a long time to wait to eat breakfast, people can do that, you know, it's not right, we're not talking about fasting,

Gan Sasaki 45:10
What I do is I take it the first thing in the morning, and then I go about you know, the morning routines, like, take a shower, for example, you know, and then by the time you know, I'm ready to eat something which I don't actually I don't eat breakfast, but sometimes when I'm hungry, I, you know, grab some snack in the morning, but by the time I eat that, then that you know, the capsule is already inside the the small intestine. And then another thing I do, if I have to take it twice a day, I recommend if you have to take systemic enzymes to you know, fix something like a back pain four or five, or, or fibromyalgia or anything else, right? Like pulmonary fibrosis, for example. You know, just, I would recommend taking it three times a day to keep the level of enzymes circulating in the body consistent, because you know, the fibrin buildup, the excess fibrin buildup is constant, you know, there, there's doesn't take a break, it's 24/7 it, you know, whenever there's a chance this excess fibrin is going to, you know, build up. So you want to keep the the, the amount, the concentration of systemic enzymes circulating in a blood constant. So for that to happen, I recommend three times a day. But a lot of times, you know, a lot of people working full time and for many other reasons, you know, you just cannot find three times a day when you're, you know, when when you're hungry, you know, when your stomach is empty. So in that case, just stick with two times a day. And that was the case with me. So in my case, I would take the first dose, the first thing in the morning and go about the morning routine, and then you know, I would eat something if I wanted to. And then the second dose was just before I left the office, now I worked from home, so I don't have that. But, you know, when I was working in the office, I just take, you know, systemic enzymes, and then get into my car and start driving, you know, and then when I'm driving, you know, there's nothing else to do, right? I'm not eating when I'm driving, it's perfect. You know, by the time I get back home, you know, I'm ready to eat. Right? And then I'm sorry, you you mentioned about pets in the previous question, and then yes, with the pets, you have to probably give the systemic enzyme with food, you know, like dogs, cats, unless you're very, very good at you know, shoving this capsule down the throat, you know, you know, it's okay to just, you know, put it in a small amount of food, and then, you know, give it to the dogs or cats or pets, one thing you might might want to be careful is that, you know, pets are typically very, very small compared to humans, right. So you don't want to take the entire thing like entire full capsule that you normally take, and then you know, give the whole thing to your pets, you might want to just, you know, open up the capsules, which is very easy to do. And then just mix this small amount like half maybe what a quarter, depending on the size of the year, the pet, and then just mix it with a very, very small amount of you know, food and then just, you know, give it to the pet. Alternatively, you can probably mix it with some sort of tasty smoothies or something a very small amount just dissolve it. And then actually, I traded myself and you know, enzymes, a lot of enzymes are quite tasty, you know. And then if you just mix it with water, you know, not smoothie or anything, just water, they might even take it. So you might want to try that first just dissolve it in a small amount of water and then let your pet just, you know, lick it up.

Matthew Blackburn 48:57
I appreciate that. Yeah, I wonder if just breaking digestive enzymes on their food to on their wet food would would be a good idea because I think they add it to, I think I've seen them add a protease and stuff to to pet food.

Gan Sasaki 49:11
It helps. Yes, definitely. And especially when the pet is older, you know, you know, they have trouble digesting food, just like humans, you know, for humans as early as like 25 years of age, you know, you start to produce less enzymes, right. So, um, you know, same thing with the pets. In fact, it probably happens sooner than that, you know, but yes, when they are like, like, like three, four or five years old, you may want to consider adding some digestive enzymes in the food. Some of my acquaintances do that, you know, they take digestive enzymes, a capsule of digestive enzymes, and then just open up and then just you know, sprinkle just a little tiny bit, you know, don't add the whole thing, you know, because that's for human size body. So just take the one capsule of digestive enzymes sprinkle a little bit on the food, and then you know, give it to you or your pets, and I'm pretty sure it helps.

Matthew Blackburn 50:18
That's great. Yeah. Let's see, I wanted to ask you, kind of going back to the the science of systemic enzymes. And I'm just curious if you think this is accurate. I've heard it said that kind of the, the order of operations is irritation, leads to inflammation, which then creates fibrosis. And I, I often talk about with people like iron overload, like iron excess in the tissues, which is a big problem with iron fortified cereals, and I grew up with all that honey nut cheerios and lucky charms that had a lot of iron in it fortified. And that creates inflammation, then you have calcification, right, like calcium fortified and just excess calcium coming in. And there's all there's all these other accumulations that I think, lead to inflammation in the body. And my perspective is that fibrosis is like the end result of all of that inflammation. Would you say that's accurate? Like, like calcification basically, is that could could lead to fibrosis?

Gan Sasaki 51:29
Well, you know, everything in moderation, right, everything in moderation, and then you know, so you just don't want to take too much of anything. But irritation, when you say irritation, it can be a number of different things, yes, irritation, what's causing irritation, minor injuries, that's happening, yes, that's irritation, and then you know, which leads to inflammation, which is not a bad thing, that's just a body's normal reaction to fixing that irritation. So that's not a bad thing. And as I was explaining earlier, you know, that's when the fibrin comes along, fibrinogen comes along, and they start sticking with each other, and then that becomes fibrin, right? And then normally, a plasmin comes along, and then just, you know, breaks up the fibrin build up, and then you know, becomes normal again. But when that becomes chronic, then it starts to, you know, lead to the excess to build up on fibrin, which is not a good thing. So the calcium, you mentioned calcium, yes, calcium is one of those things. You know, it causes the hardening of the arteries, for example, right, that's the beginning part of the the heart attack that you you know, some people have. And what happens is like, as I was telling you earlier, this this lattice structure of fibrin, excess fibrin, it starts to trap things in the circulating in the bloodstream, and then calcium being one of them. And as you can imagine, calcium is what makes your bones right. So, you know, when the calcium starts to build up in this plaque, it becomes hardened. And then it causes all sorts of problems leading to heart a heart attack, right? And then if something like that happens in the brain, then it's a stroke. Right? So, yes, the order of things. Yes, it's true, that that's pretty much correct. But, you know, that's the, the bad scenario. So what you want to do is to just, you know, take everything in the right amount, you know, don't don't take anything excessively, you know, people say calcium is good for the bone growth. Yes, that's true. But if you take too much of that, it's not a good thing. Right. And I'm not sure about iron, but you know, many other minerals like that, you know, you just take too much of it, and it's just not a good thing. So I've always been careful, I just try not to take too much of it, the best thing to do is to you know, eat healthy, you know, eat vegetables, eat the the proper amount of meat, and then you know, everything is great, but what happens is with with that, you know, especially with the you know, the society these days is that everybody's so busy, you know, and then you know they just don't have time to prepare a meal properly you know, so you know, if you start taking the shortcuts and then start eating a lot of processed food, which is rich in a lot of things that that's not natural. The amount found naturally in the the nature is what I should say. So you causes the imbalance in the nutrients and vitamins and minerals ah, And then it causes a lot of problems. So just be mindful of these things, and then try to eat healthy. I try not to eat, like fast food, for example, it's just full of salt. And then you know, it's just fat, for example, and it's just not good. But, you know, if you look around, you can still, you know, quote, unquote, cut corners, and then still try to be healthy, for example, like, you know, a lot of healthy food places, you know, like salad bars, for example, you know, you can try salad, you know, for meals, and which is what I do, I travel a lot these days. So, whenever I'm on the road, I intentionally try to find salad bars, where I can eat salad. So, you know, try to make a little bit of life change, you know, lifestyle change, like that, and then it should be fine. Another thing that, you know, I'm particularly fond of is Chinese food, you know, they, they tend to make things, you know, from fresh ingredients, specially, like those mom and pop store, you know, Chinese food, you know, I went into this little Chinese restaurant, near where I used to work. And then, you know, when I walked in there, a couple of people, you know, like, workers, you know, clearly the owners of the place, you know, they're just, you know, peeling this little green beans, and then, you know, they just do that, instead of buying things, you know, like, pre made, you know, they just actually had to prepare things from the raw ingredients. So, you know, I used to go to that Chinese restaurant very often. So, you know, you can, you can cut corners, and then still be healthy. But, you know, ideally, you should prepare your own food so you know exactly what you're eating. But, you know, like I said, a lot of people are too busy for that, you know, myself included. In that case, just try to be mindful. And then try to make some changes. For example, like I said, I travel a lot. So when I'm on the road, I eat salad for lunch, and, you know, dinner, unless I'm with my clients, of course. So, yeah, just that's just an advice.

Matthew Blackburn 57:26
I love it. Yeah, I agree. God, have you ever been to the restaurant Shogun? I think there's another chain. It was my dad's birthday recently went, you know, where they cook on the, on the table there in front of you. I think it's like an Americanized, you know asian food.

Gan Sasaki 57:45
Kinda like, what was that? I can't remember the name of it. But yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. You're talking about (unintelligble) right?. So yes, I've been there many times. I wouldn't call that Japanese food. Because that's not really a traditional, you know, a home style Japanese. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. And then yes, as you know, I am from Japan. You know, they have ingredients and they you know exactly what they put on your food. And then you know, you can tell them to go easy on salt. Or, in my case, you know, if I do go into like a fast food, like once in a blue moon, you know, when I order french fries, I tell them no salt on the french fries. And then a lot of times you know, these like burgers, you know, they they already have salt and sugar and everything already, you know, on the burger. But if you go to a place like In and Out Burger, for example, you can just tell them don't put salt on my burger, and then they won't put salt on the burger. So, you know, it's a little things like this, but you know, it adds up. Yeah, Shogun? Yes, that, you know, I'm pretty sure that there a lot of restaurants named Shogun that there was a TV show called show back in the 80s and that was a huge thing.

Matthew Blackburn 59:03
I wonder if the salt the excess salt was just creating a potassium deficiency because it was sodium potassium or on a seesaw together. And the nutrient relationships are so fascinating to me, you know, talking about enzymes, from what I'm researching when the vitamin and mineral imbalance occurs, then we get basically these enzyme pathways shut down. For example, if you have like excess calcium, and you create a magnesium deficiency there's like 3751 proteins that are magnesium dependent. So those can't function you know those those enzymes.

Gan Sasaki 59:43
Right, so I'm not sure about the you know, how about potassium and the sodium compete or calcium and magnesium, how they compete and then you're right, there are a lot of chemical reactions that involve all these minerals and then you know, that wasn't the area of my study. But yes, I do realize that there are a lot of chemical reactions that require all these things. Calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, many other things, iron, for example. But like I said, everything is, you know, everything is in moderation, right? So, you know, don't try to, you know, just take a lot of calcium or a lot of magnesium, a lot of times what happens is that, you know, like, people read about these things on the internet. And then, you know, they read something like, "Hey, magnesium is good for this condition", and they just start taking, like, a lot of magnesium for that, and then that might, compete against the calcium, and then you might have a problem at some other places of your body. And then, you know, instead of fixing the problem, you're actually introducing another problems, right? So yeah, just Just go easy. And then, you know, another thing that I would caution you is that, you know, I think I told you earlier that, you know, my background is in science, but you know, life science, but I'm also my, a part of my background is in IT. So, you know, another thing that I would caution you is that, you know, just don't believe anything that you read on the internet. You know, always take it with a grain of salt. And then you know, always try to vet the source of the information, and then see how reliable that is. And then if it's reliable, like I said, just, you know, just think and listen to your body, and then decide how much of this new you know, regimen that you are going to try- if you just go overboard all of a sudden, then it just, you know, knocks everything out of balance. So I would just go easy, and then keep listening to the body. And then you know, make changes as you go along.

Matthew Blackburn 1:01:58
That's really good advice. Yeah, I think younger people, like myself tend to be gung ho. And maybe we can get away with a lot. Yesterday, I just learned about, I've been studying B vitamins very intensely, you know, thiamin, riboflavin, nicacin B5, B6, B12. B9. And I recently learned if you can't remember your dreams, that could be a B6 deficiency. But if you take too much B6, I think that can cause like neuropathy. There's a, there's a sweet spot, like a balance.

Gan Sasaki 1:02:32
That's, that's a good point. So yeah, just first of all, yeah, always vet your source and then just, you know, and then, you know, try to figure out how important it is because, you know, remembering your dream, how important is that? Right? So, you know, I don't remember my dreams, you know, like, every night, I'm pretty sure I'm dreaming. But you know, by the time I wake up, I don't most of the times, I don't remember things that I was dreaming. But, you know, that's just one example. But you know, if you, you know, if you have some other conditions, and then you know, then you start going gung ho, and then it causes another problem. So, you know, is that a good thing? You know, is that a good trade off? You have to think about that. And another thing you just mentioned yes, younger people yeah, there's a wider tolerance so that's good, about older people, you know, you just have to, yeah, be mindful, even more than young people. I remember, you know, when I was in college, you know, I would study all night long, especially before the exam, right? And then I would order pizza, right? Domino's, and then, you know, have it delivered to the dorm room, you know, wherever I was studying, you know, and then I would just eat the the entire pizza, you know, like, like, it was nothing. But I can do that now. Right? I'm in my 50s. Now, and I cannot do that now. So, yeah, you have to listen to your body, and then, you know, decide the course of action.

Matthew Blackburn 1:04:00
Kind of a random question for you. Gan, I heard this I think from an enzyme interviewer from an enzyme advocate years ago and I forget if I've asked you this in the past, sneak venom, let's say hypothetically, I'm on a hike in Southern California, and a Southern Pacific rattlesnake lashes out and nails me in the leg. say hypothetically, I have in my bag, a bottle of systemic enzymes or digestive enzymes. We're taking a bunch of those potentially help with that protein, which the venom is protein. That was kind of the argument that I heard a few times.

Gan Sasaki 1:04:40
I doubt it. I seriously doubt that because of a couple of reasons. Number one, if you pick systemic enzymes, right, systemic enzymes is something you don't just inject it directly into your blood vessels. You have to take it orally. And like I said, it has to go through the stomach and then it has to go into this small intestine. it's the way it gets absorbed, right? And then it gets into your bloodstream and then it gets to the other side of irritation. So that just takes way too long for the to do something about the snake venom. Right? Another thing is that snake venom, yes, it may be protein. I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a snake venom. But, you know, just because you take systemic enzymes, it doesn't systemic enzymes just doesn't work on any proteins. It works on in this case, and when we say systemic enzymes, when enzymes people say systemic enzymes, we're talking about fibrinogen, some something that digest fiberlytic enzymes, right? So something that digest fibrin, right? So unless snake venom, the major constituent of snake venom is fibrin, I don't think it's going to assist to make enzymes. It's not going to do anything.

Matthew Blackburn 1:05:57
Now, I'm curious to look that up. Yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah, oh, here we go. Yeah, I found a study swensson 2005. snake venoms contain a number of serine and Metallo proteinases. And included among these are the fibrin fibrinolytic proteinases. So maybe?

Gan Sasaki 1:06:22
Well, so you're saying that snake venom contains fiberlytic enzymes. Right? Which it's kind of interesting because yes, it does make sense for them to contain fiberlytic enzymes, so because, you know, they want to give as much damage as possible, right? So you wants to break down fibrins, you know, inside your body to make the snake venom more effective. So you know, in other words, you know, you're taking systemic enzymes, which is the fiberlytic enzymes. And what you're saying is that snake venom also contains fiberlytic enzymes. So if anything, yeah, it wrosens the condition. Like I said, it's not going to do anything, because it just takes way too long for systemic enzymes to get into the bloodstream.

Matthew Blackburn 1:07:15
{robably just carry some anti venom probably be better off.

Gan Sasaki 1:07:23
Exactly. Yes. When it comes to systemic enzymes, you have to have patience. You know, it's not like, like many of these western medications. It takes time. So, you know, it takes days before you start- days or weeks before you start to feel the effectiveness of systemic enzymes. And it might take years before that, you know, whatever the condition or ailment that you're suffering from is gone. So yeah, just just be patient. Patience is, yeah, you have to take systemic enzymes with patience.

Matthew Blackburn 1:08:08
I love it. Gan, do you want to talk about probiotics for a little bit? Because you studied spore forming organisms? For a while, right? And these are different from your run of the mill probiotics, correct?

Gan Sasaki 1:08:24
Well, yes, in a way. Probiotics, they're living organisms. And, you know, what makes a spore formers unique is that these certain kinds of probiotics, okay? They can form a protein coating around the DNA, to protect themselves from harsh environment. So for example, no food, no water, they can survive that. So that's just a quick overview, like really, really quick overview of what the spore former is, it just helps these microbes survive for an extended period of time and we're talking about years and decades a little more specifically, what happens is that some bacteria, which is what the microbes are, bacteria, you know, for example, like bacillus, genus, right? What happens is that, you know, they are living organisms with DNA, right? When the condition for living becomes hard, like there is no water around them, there's no food around them. They can no longer survive, right? So many probiotics. They just die at that point, because there's no food, there's no water, they just die. What spore formers can do is to de start wrapping the DNA which is in cytoplasm, inside the body, right inside the cell, they start wrapping DNA with protein coding, right, and they shed the rest of the cell. So, good analogy is a plant seed. Right? If you have a plant seed, you store it in your drawer, like a desk drawer, you can keep it in there for like years and years and years. And they don't really die. It just stays dormant, right, this plant seed. And same thing with the spore forming probiotics, they form a seed, essentially. And they they protect the DNA inside this protein sack, right. And they remain in that condition for an extended period of time. Now, when the condition becomes favorable for sustaining the growth. So for example, when you ingest it, for example, right, and then it goes into your stomach and it goes into your small intestine, where it's warm, this moisture, there's food, this seed, you know, it germinates. So this DNA starts to create the rest of the the body, right DNA, of course, as everybody knows, is like a sort of like a blueprint of life ands o same thing with probiotics, this blueprint, as long as this spore forming probiotics, they have a blueprint, which is DNA, as long as they have that DNA intact, they can build the rest of the body from that DNA, and then come back to life. Just like the seed that you had in your drawer, you take it, you know, put it in the soil, and then pour some water on it, it starts to re germinate, right, it becomes a flower again, same thing happens with probiotics, it comes back to life. And only some provide probiotics can do that yeah, only some probiotics, not all of them can do it. Only if they have abilities to do that. So for example, a good analogy is that, you know, human as humans, we cannot fly, right? Because we don't have wings. But you know, birds have wings, you know, because they have bird birds have genes for wings, right? But humans do not. So that's the difference. Some Probiotics have certain characteristics that is necessary to build the special coating around their DNA. And that's why they can form spores, whereas most other probiotics, they don't have that, you know, characteristics and they cannot form spores. So when the condition becomes harsh, they just simply die.

Matthew Blackburn 1:12:58
That was awesome. I appreciate that explanation. And in some of these, some of these types of bacteria can actually have antibiotic like effects, right, like actually fight infections in the gut?

Gan Sasaki 1:13:13
I would say so I'm not sure if I would call them antibiotics but you know, but yes, because they have to compete. The interesting thing is that, you know, your body your intestine, is especially large intestine, is teeming with bacteria. Right? And some people say that, you know, there are more bacterial cells than the cells of your body. So that's how many bacterial cells there are. And, and, you know, they're always competing for that space. Right? In this case, in large intestine, they're competing for the, the lining of the large intestine, right? They're always like, it's kind of like, living in New York City, you know, the real estate is, you know, comes with price, you know, you cannot find a place where you can latch on to on the surface, you know, what happens is that you get expelled from the body. So you have to latch onto the surface of the intestine, and then, you know, there's always a competition, so you keep taking good by bacteria, you know, probiotics, right? And then you keep taking probiotics, which is beneficial for you. And then you know, they compete against bad bacteria that are living in your gut, and then eventually they have to slough off you know, they have to come off and then you know, as soon as they come off, you know, these good bacteria can take its place, you know, slowly and gradually replace the bad bacteria or eat, you know, out of place and then you know, replace the bad ones with good ones.

Matthew Blackburn 1:14:52
Awesome is Do you do you recommend taking spore forming organisms with food? :ike these types of probiotics with Food are on an empty stomach, does it matter?

Gan Sasaki 1:15:03
Well, there are two schools of thoughts about that. I personally like to take it on an empty stomach. So I often take it with systemic enzymes, right? I take probiotics and systemic enzymes together on an empty stomach, like the first thing, I wake up in the morning, and, you know, in the evening hours before, you know, like, well before the supper time, but there is another school of thought that some people say you should take it with food. Their idea is that food helps, you know, carry probiotics, all the way down to the large intestine. Remember, like, small intestine is a very, very long organ a few meters long, right? So, you know, probiotics, you know, after you ingest on an empty stomach, for example, right, it passes through the stomach, and then it gets deposited into the beginning of the small intestine. And from that point, it has to travel all the way through the small intestine all the way to the large intestine, right. So the second school of thought that people think that, you know, by taking food, what happens is that food helps, you know, just catch them along the way, and then, you know, carries that all the way to the large intestine. Personally, I don't, you subscribe to that idea, I just take it with the, on an empty stomach. And then, you know, let water, carry it all the way down to large intestine. That's how I do things. Another thing about taking with the food, especially if you're eating, you know, with, with a protein rich food, what happens is that stomach can remain closed for up to two hours while the protein is getting digested. And as we were just discussing earlier, you know, protein, it's kind of like a rolled up ball of string, right. So the stomach acid first unravels, the, that ball, and then your digestive enzymes start, you know, chewing, the string to digest. Now, that can take a long time. So if you're taking a protein, which would like say, for example, you just ate a steak, right? Your stomach can remain closed for up to two hours. And then if you are taking probiotics with that, steak, right, your probiotics is going to get stuck in the stomach for up to two hours floating around in that stomach acid. So I just don't think it's a good thing. You know, if you if you're interested in taking probiotics, and that's why I take it on an empty stomach. If you want to take the benefit of the two, you know, schools of thoughts and the good parts of two schools of thoughts, then I would recommend taking probiotics like 5-10 minutes before you eat, you know, let the the capsule go into the small intestine and then start eating, you know, and then eventually, that food will pick up the other probiotics that's sitting in the small intestine and carried all the way to the large intestine.

Matthew Blackburn 1:18:24
That's fascinating. Wow, I appreciate that. Do you want to go through some questions here Gan? We have quite a few, picked out some good ones. This is a common one. Should you take a break from enzymes? Like does our body become dependent on them and start secreting less? I think that's a common concern.

Gan Sasaki 1:18:48
Yes, I've heard that question too. And I'm not worried about it. I've been taking digestive enzymes- are we talking about digestive enzymes or systemic enzymes? Digestive enzymes? Right?

Matthew Blackburn 1:18:59
It must be Yeah They didn't specify. But we could just say digested probably Yeah.

Gan Sasaki 1:19:06
Okay. So yeah, I've been taking digestive enzymes with every single meal that I eat, except for that little light snack that I sometimes eat in the morning, you know, then I don't take digestive enzymes, but for lunch and supper. You know, I always take digestive enzymes, and I have had no problem. Sometimes I forget to take digestive enzymes, especially I'm on the road, you know, and then nothing bad happens. Listen, you know, your body is already programmed to produce digestive enzymes. So it's not going to just go away, your body's not going to just forget how to produce digestive enzymes. I sometimes, you know, give an example analogy of somebody working out in the gym, right? You're lifting a heavy weight. And yes, your body can handle that weight, right. But by having a spotter, you know, helping you, it's easier for you, right? But when that spotter is gone, you know, you can still lift that weight, you know, it's not like your muscle just atrophies and then you know, forgets how to lift up the the weight, you know, it's always there, your ability to produce enzymes is always there, you don't forget. So that's not something that I would really worry about. And then I know for the firsthand that, you know, nothing bad will happen. And, you know, because I've been taking digestive enzymes for, let's see, probably seven years, I've been taking digestive enzymes every day. And then, you know, I feel great.

Matthew Blackburn 1:20:42
That's awesome. And do you just do you take it right before a meal, or during or after?

Gan Sasaki 1:20:50
No, I take it with the meal as I start eating. So some bottles, if you look at it, it says like, take it five minutes before you start eating. You know, don't worry too much about that. You know, just take it as you take your first bite, you know, before you start eating a lot of people just take a sip of water, right or drink, just, you know, take one capsule of digestive enzymes with that sip of water, or juice and then start eating. Now, if you forget to take digestive enzymes, right, or like sometimes I'll do Yeah, just take it later. You know, like I said, especially if you're eating a protein rich food, you know, your stomach remains closed for a while. So it's not like you know there's a window, you know, where you can take digestive enzymes, don't worry about it, after you finish eating, and you suddenly remember that you had forgotten to take digestive enzymes, then yeah, just take one capsule, and that's it, you will catch up to the food inside your stomach, and then start digesting the food in the stomach. Not a problem.

Matthew Blackburn 1:21:59
That's great. SIBO, like small intestinal bacterial overgrowth? Have you ever looked into that?

Gan Sasaki 1:22:06
Well, kind of Yes. That's when you know, your probiotics and other bacteria. They're supposed to be in the large intestine. Sometimes, you know, for some reasons, you know, they back up into a small intestine and then start growing there. So that's what SIBO is.

Matthew Blackburn 1:22:30
Have you heard that the spore based probiotics helping with that?

Gan Sasaki 1:22:34
Well, like I said, spore forming bacteria, the only difference between spore forming and non spore forming is that its ability to produce spores. So, you know, I don't think spore forming bacteria like you know, by its nature can just help SIBO you know, if anything, if, you know, if you have SIBO for some reason, you know, whether you take spore forming or non spore forming, I think you will get SIBO so, you know, you just have to address the root cause of that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:23:12
Yeah, if I had SIBO I would look into rectal ozone insufflation basically, it's like an ozone gas enema sounds intimidating, but that's incredible for intestinal problems. Way to question your animal based enzymes versus plant enzymes. I think the first research was done on animal enzymes, wasn't it?

Gan Sasaki 1:23:39
Well, yes, I think you're right. And then I'm pretty sure that person asking that questions asking about digestive enzymes. And, you know, like, if you have something like pancreatic enzymes, right, there is a reason why it's released into duodenum. Pancreas, the content of the- well I shouldn't say content of the pancreas but you know the enzymes produced by pancreas, it is released into duodenum where the pH level returns to neutral right after the low stomach acid. Right. And the reason for that is because pancreatic enzymes they work optimally at neutral pH, right at seven. So, if you take pancreatic enzymes, right, orally, to help with digestion, what happens is that it gets it might get stuck, especially if you eat it with food inside the stomach, where the pH is low, whereas the the pancreatic enzymes are not designed to tolerate that kind of low pH. So a lot of pancreatic enzymes that come from pigs. And, you know, you take it, and then a pH drops inside the stomach, and then it destroys the pancreatic enzymes in the stomach. So by time it gets into the small intestine, it's becomes, you know, the effect is very, very low. And that's why when you look at the, this pancreatic enzymes, the bottles, you probably have to take a whole bunch of it, right? Like, like 10 capsules, for example. And then, you know, the reason for that is because you're hoping that some of that survives to low stomach acid goes into the small intestine where it works. Now, plant based enzymes or microbial based enzymes, they have a much, much wider pH tolerance. And a lot of times what happens is that not only do they tolerate the pH, low pH, but they actually function at low pH as well. So if you take lipase, okay, which is the from bacteria, right? Microbial based lipase, if you take microbial based on lipase eat it with food, what happens is that it gets trapped in the stomach, but it doesn't get dissolved. Because you know, this microbial based enzymes have a wider pH tolerance, it can tolerate low pH of your stomach. And not only that, it actually works on the fat. So like I said, like you eat steak and which has like fat, right? The great thing about this is that microbial based lipase that you eat with the food starts working inside your stomach, so it has like a good one hour or maybe two hours headstart on digestion. And then once it gets into the small intestine, it keeps on working because it's got a wide a pH tolerance, and then you know, it works. It functions within a wider range of pH. So it even functions at a neutral pH. So it keeps working in your small intestine. It keeps digesting fat inside your small intestine. So you know, that's why I typically recommend microbial or plant based enzymes over animal based enzymes.

Matthew Blackburn 1:27:25
That was awesome. I think we've talked about this in the past but biofilms, can systemic enzymes help them break break down biofilms?

Gan Sasaki 1:27:35
I think so. Biofilms you know, the constituents of biofilms is like a lot of things, you know, it's essentially some like a structure where bacteria can grow in three dimensions. As you can imagine, bacteria, you know, they're so small and then you know, they they sort of spread sideways, right as they divide and multiply. But you know, if they have biofilm you know, they can sort of grow in three dimensional directions. And then the constituent of biofilms can be a lot of things, you know, the bacteria just you know, produces these things based on whatever they can find, they can do whatever they can scavenge from their environment. And some of them are just proteins, sugar molecules, and some of them are like a DNA like disposed DNA materials that they can find. So it can be a lot of things and fibrin is of course, one of them that they can just incorporate into biofilms. So if you in that sense, if you're taking, you know, systemic enzymes, yes, it can definitely digest, you know, part of that biofilm, making it you know, weaker. But, you know, like I said, that's not the only thing that's biofilm is made of, so it only helps partially.

Matthew Blackburn 1:28:54
That's great. So maybe you're like breaching the the fortress, but maybe not taking down the whole castle.

Gan Sasaki 1:29:02
Right, right. Exactly.

Matthew Blackburn 1:29:05
Interesting. Should people with low blood pressure avoid systemic enzymes? A few questions on that.

Gan Sasaki 1:29:15
Well, that's, you know, like, whenever you have a condition like that, first, I would ask the doctor, consult the doctor and make sure because he's the person with more, he or she, is the person with the knowledge of your body and what kind of medications you're taking, and then how these medications interact with each other. And like I said earlier, they probably don't really interact with enzymes, but still, you know, it's better to speak with them. Andthen, you know, really depends on the cause of that low blood pressure. So I cannot just say hey, you know, go for it. That will be kind of on, you know, unprofessional and then you know, unresponsible- irresponsible of me to say something like that. But you know, like I said, enzymes, these are natural product molecules, you know, pretty well tolerated by many people. So you know, if you're interested, just give it a try. And like I said, Don't go gung ho. And then, you know, take a whole bunch of these things, but go easy, and see what happens and keep listening to your body. And then you know, if something bad happens, you know, just stop doing it. But if nothing bad happens, just keep keep doing it. But remember, just ask you a doctor first. That's, that's probably the safest thing to do.

Matthew Blackburn 1:30:40
Just a few more here Gan are most supplemental digestive enzymes derived from bacteria and fungus? Like, if we're talking about the plant enzymes versus animal enzymes, I think some people freak out the sourcing of enzymes that it's, yeah, derived for mold, or whatever.

Gan Sasaki 1:31:00
Well, that I think most of the enzymes today are derived microbially. Because it's more economical. You know, that's the reason why you can get these enzymes and sometimes life saving enzymes, at very, very low price. Because, you know, microbes, it's easy to produce them and easy to have them produce enzymes. So that's why a lot of them are microbial based. Hhowever, yes, I do understand that concern, you know, like, when you hear bacteria, or mold, or you know, fungi, it's scary, sounds scary, but you just have to remember that enzymes are very, very, very small molecules compared to even bacteria. Okay? Bacteria is very, very small compared to mold. But you know, enzymes are much, much smaller. So sometimes, you know, when I tell a story like this, think about, I'm sure, you know, everybody has seen soccer, right? Or, as they say, football in the rest of the world. You know, there's a goalpost, right, and then you kick a ball and the ball doesn't go through the goalpost, right, the net. So, imagine bacteria that size, the size of the soccer ball, right? Enzymes, okay, the width of the enzymes at that scale is probably about the width of your hair, maybe a couple of hair, right? So it's that small, so it can easily pass through the net. Okay, so so far, so good, right? It's, it's, I hope, it's kind of easy to visualize that picture, the ball gets stuck in the back of the goalpost. Whereas, you know, something as small as the the couple of strands of hair, it can easily pass through the net. A lot of times when they produce enzymes, or microbial based enzymes, so when I say microbial, I'm talking about bacteria and fungi, right? You know, they use filters, to isolate enzymes. And the filter in this case is kind of like that the net, right? And the microbes in this case is kind of like that soccer ball. So soccer ball gets trapped in the net, where as the enzymes, since they're so small, it can easily pass through that filter. So that's how they isolate enzymes from bacteria, or yeast, or mold, fungi. So there's nothing to worry about. There's nothing that even remotely resembles bacteria or fungi, in a capsule of enzymes. Because of the sheer like a huge size difference.

Matthew Blackburn 1:34:02
Here's just one more here for my friend Pedro, this is a complex one. Anything on the role transposons and (unintelligble) Any, any connection there. So I think he's talking about translocation of, of DNA.

Gan Sasaki 1:34:32
Oh, no, it's no, no, I would not worry about that. You know, some people ask questions about that. And this is kind of related to telomerase that people sometimes talk about, you know, people say, Oh, I take telomerase as to, you know, extend my life and I just don't believe something like that happens. One of the reasons is that, you know, first of all, you take enzymes, okay, it needs to get up into your bloodstream, and then it goes to the site. And then it goes, you know, digesting the fibrin, okay, in this case, since we're talking about systemic enzymes, and we're talking about fiberlytic systemic enzymes, so it breaks down fibrin. Now, in order for that, to do anything to your DNA, it would first have to cross the cell membrane, right? And then it has to travel inside the cytoplasm. And then it has to go all the way to the nucleus in in case of humans, right? Unlike bacteria, which you know, where they have DNA just floating around in the cytoplasm, freely, humans and you know, like animals, they have a nucleus. So that's another membrane that, you know, the enzymes need to pass through to get inside. And then what you know, it's not going to just start chewing on the DNA and then start breaking up DNA. So that's not something that you know, I worry about, it just doesn't get there in the first place. And then even if it does get there, for some weird reasons, it that's not the right substrate that, you know, these systemic enzymes work on, so nothing would happen.

Matthew Blackburn 1:36:19
That's great. And this is a different discussion from like, GMOs, right, like genetically modified organisms, because I've heard some fascinating arguments on those that they aren't as big of a deal as the natural health community makes them out to be not to say we shouldn't think about them, but I've heard even like, just probiotics and help to counter them. I haven't looked into it too deeply. But-

Gan Sasaki 1:36:44
Well, yeah, GMO, I'm not too worried about that. I know, it's a hybrid, remember, you know, that people, you know, with celiac disease, which is actual condition, right? A lot of people have celiac disease, you know, and people couldn't digest wheat. And then, what happens is that, you know, people just heard about it, and then people just started going crazy about it. And then, you know, next thing you know, everybody's having this a gluten digesting problems, you know, I've got gluten digestive problems, you know, and I have to find food and gluten free sections and what happened you know, a lot of superstores, they started having this special section for gluten free food. I don't know if you remember it, but some retail, you know, superstores, supermarkets started having special sections, but you don't see that anymore, you know, and then it's just a marketing thing. And like I said, you know, like a celiac disease, that's a real thing. That's the the actual condition. But you know, a lot of people for like, normal, healthy people, they hear these terms, and then they just go crazy with it. So GMO is another thing. I'm not to worry about it. Same thing with organic food, not to worry about that, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not searching for organic food, per se. But, you know, GMOs, what happens is that, you know, yes, it's genetically modified, yes, but, you know, the food is still food, and then, you know, the components of that genetically modified food is still the same if you look at the other building blocks. So proteins are made out of amino acids. You know, DNA is nucleotides, and the fat is, you know, a made of, you know, some carbon molecules. So what happens is that, you know, when you break them up, you know, into their constituents, they're all the same, so I'm not too worried about it. And the last thing I like to mention is the organic food, the only only time that I'm interested in organic food that I'm really interested in eating organic food, is that the fact that they don't use pesticides, you know, those things that you just don't want to consume. So in that respect, yes, organic food, yes, that's good. But, you know, I trust the safety of the food produced or brought into the United States. This is really, you know, one of the country's you know, with very, very high standards of the food that people eat, so I'm not too worried about for like non GMO or non organic food consuming those foods. But like I said, I understand that some people like organic food for its, you know, added safety I understand that, GMO? I'm not too worried about it. But when you look at the the other food, like, you know, when I first came to the United States, I was kind of surprised with the food colorings of the, you know, in the processed food. So I would go into the supermarkets, and then I would, you know, look at, for example, cereal aisle, right. I was so surprised with the colorings of food colorings. And then I go to, like, you know, like convections, other convections, like candies, and cakes. And I was like, surprised with this, I can brilliant blue or red or yellow colors, and people actually consuming these things. So, you know, that's something I would worry more about than, you know, spending time worrying about GMOs.

Matthew Blackburn 1:40:49
Hmm, that's great. Yeah, hopefully you draw the line at lab grown meats, I think that that can't be good. Or they're like growing meat in a petri dish.

Gan Sasaki 1:41:00
I'm a scientist. So you know, every science, you know, has to start somewhere. And so, you know. At the moment, no, I would not eat that lab grown meat. But you know, I'm pretty sure in the future they perfect the the technology to the point that, you know, you cannot distinguish between the the lab grown meat and the regular, you know, like real animal meat. You know, I'm pretty sure someday it'll be like that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:41:30
Fortunately, I've a ton of deer every day, Awesome Gan. Well, this was so much fun. I learned so much, and really appreciate you coming on and sharing your knowledge. I've always enjoyed talking with you over the years about enzymes, a lot of fun.

Gan Sasaki 1:41:55
Likewise, it's always fun speaking with you, you're very knowledgeable. And, you know, I respect the fact that you know, you're still very young and then you know, you have your own business. And, you know, I wish you luck going forward. And thank you for having me on the show.

Matthew Blackburn 1:42:12
Thanks, Gan. Well, I'll stick around as I close it out. Thanks so much. That's it for today's show. I thought the snake venom part was fascinating. Because when I was raw vegan for several years, there were enzyme advocates running around saying that you could save your life by taking tons of enzymes if you get bit by a venomous snake, I always question and never looked into it. And they never specified whether they were referring to digestive enzymes or systemic enzymes. But this sent me down a rabbit hole. And I found that really interesting study from 2005, snake venom fibrinogen oolitic enzymes. And this study is looking at the potential pharmaceutical use of snake venom for vascular occlusive conditions. Could call that blocked arteries. I would rather use Vitamin K2 magnesium, Shilajit or the number one being serrapeptase and nattokinase, systemic enzyme therapy before going to snake venom, but it's interesting, like Gan said that taking enzymes could actually make your situation worse. So hopefully, that part saved a former raw vegans life, if they were thinking about trying that on a hike. I also liked what he said about the enzymes being derived from bacteria and fungus and people freak out about that. But the size of the enzymes are so much smaller than the bacteria and fungus that there's not going to be any residue leftover from that extraction. There's so much fear that's thrown around in the alternative health sphere, especially with the subject of supplements, with enzymes, I usually hear two arguments. One is they're not worth taking, and they don't do much and there's not much research to back up their efficacy, which is not true. And the second one is that because they're derived from mold or fungus or whatever, that they are harmful to your health, which is also untrue. I've been taking various enzymes for several years, thanks to delving pretty deep into the raw vegan lifestyle. And that's the best thing that I took from it was Is enzyme therapy, both digestive and systemic. And I could say that taking handfuls I used to swallow 20-30-40 capsules at a time of digestive enzymes, seeing if I could get that systemic enzyme effect. And just taking one or two of a high quality serrapeptase and nattokinase systemic systemic enzyme is so much more effective than taking tons of digestive enzymes. And nobody wants to take handfuls, especially at a time of capsules. And that's what's so cool about a good quality digestive or systemic enzyme is you should only need one to get the effect. Although because I'm in to call it anti aging or pro youthing, I often take at least three, usually six of the dissolve it all from mitolife. And that's a enteric, coated serrapeptase and nattokinase in a phalate free capsule, which is really important because all these systemic enzyme products, you'll find it your health food store, the enteric coating on these cheaper supplements is actually made of plastic. So while while you're breaking down scar tissue, you're also getting a good dose of plastic. So if anyone wants to connect with Gan, I put his phone number below. And if you want to support the show, you can go to Matt-blackburn.com. I have the updated CLF protocol up there. recommended products, which I'm constantly updating. Next show is actually with the people over at the Chi Institute. I've been loving their product called the infra tonic 11 chi palm, I learned about this from Brandon Amilani of Shen blossom. And this is such a great product to use in combination with other things. Like for example, if you're wearing headphones, or you're doing some type of a flashing light thing, your face whether it's a Lucia light, or the nu calm or, or light therapy, you can place this chi palm on your thymus. That's what I do, like the center of my chest, and I put it on the sleep mode. And sometimes I'll just take a little power nap with that over my thymus gland. And it feels really rejuvenative. And the battery lasts forever. So you could take it on the road with you. You could take it traveling, it's really small. And their slogan with it is put it where it hurts. So a lot of people use it for aches and pains. They have pretty amazing stories on their website. It's been used at equestrian centers for wounds and horses, for whiplash. So many cool things. So check that out at the Chi Institute. And that's going to be a really fun show that I'm looking forward to. My brand is mitoife, you can find that at mitolife.co. And the Shilajit tablets are finally coming back in stock. So just keep checking the website, usually two to three times a week. That's definitely our most popular product. For good reason. It takes a lot to import that from Russia, especially with the recent world events going on. It was very hard to get that out of the country, to the US, but we finally did it. And they're very powerful tablets. I take five a day with my raw goat milk, usually with breakfast, sometimes with lunch. And it's a really powerful synergy to have Shilajit together with goat milk and coffee or caffeine. If you want to be productive, if you want to be creative, get some writing done or study and research. It's a really great combination that I recommend. And then you just keep adding things to it if you want. I like to add the magnesium, mag ATP product to that as well. And it's just a really balancing combination. And I just want to give a shout out here to the quote vitamin D debate. I recently wrote a post kind of a rebuttal post to this back and forth that's happening with the quote pro metabolic community and what I've been sharing for the last few years against supplementing isolated vitamin d3 or secosteroid hormone D or caliciferol, I recommend getting it from light, either from an ultraviolet light device, or from food, or from a food based supplement, which would be Rosita cod liver oil, which does contain vitamin D. But it also contains vitamin A, at a ratio of 10 to one, A to D. And what's really fascinating is that retinoids derived from retinol actually inhibit calcification. So if you take isolated by itself, vitamin D, you will increase calcium absorption in the gut. And that will promote calcification because everyone's drinking mountain valley spring water and gerolsteiner. And all of these hard waters, we've been slammed with calcium for our entire life. And the natural health community is still heavily promoting it largely via drinking water. Unfiltered drinking water like spring water is or mineral waters. And this adds up. Perrier is another one, you don't just pee it out, it actually gets stuck in your body, especially in a state of magnesium and vitamin K two deficiency, which are two of the key players in calcium homeostasis and regulating calcium. You need magnesium and vitamin K2 to do that. But vitamin D will also deplete your potassium, it'll deplete your retinol, it'll deplete copper, it depletes so many things. And so if you're going to play the isolate game,like most people in the last two years that have been taking vitamin D for the thing, how many of them have sufficient retinol status or sufficient red blood cell magnesium levels, or enough vitamin K to they're aware of all of these things and vitamin E, all the fat soluble vitamins work together. And so if someone's taking just D, and they're vitamin A, vitamin E and vitamin K2 deficient, they're going to cause metabolic chaos throughout their body. So I think there's nothing wrong with supplementing synthetics. There's nothing wrong with supplementing isolates. But we have to be smart. And we have to look at it in context of how we grew up. What foods we ate our entire childhood, what diets we've been on, what supplement regimes we've done. And all of this plays a role in what supplements we should take today. And that's how I crafted the supplements that I sell through mitolife is looking at the standard American lifestyle of iron fortification that started in 1941. And the vegetable oils that started shortly thereafter. And all of these poisonings that just kept stacking on what that depleted and what that caused, it caused a lot of calcification, scar tissue, and iron overload slash lipofuscin. And that's the basis of my CLF protocol, and the mitolife supplements that are just tools to assist in your journey of coming back to balance. So that's it. Thanks for listening. Check out the mitolife Academy on YouTube. It's four private videos every month and a live q&a The last day of the month. And there's a new radio show released every Friday. See you next week. Stay supercharged