Dr. Carolyn Dean | Mitolife Radio Ep #194

Wed, Oct 19, 2022 2:54PM • 2:42:55
magnesium, supplements, minerals, body, people, milligrams, potassium, started, put, zinc, called, yeast, good, day, thought, laxative effect, pico, studies, brain, high dose
Matthew Blackburn, Dr. Carolyn Dean

Matthew Blackburn  00:18
You're listening to Episode 194 of Mito Life Radio. I'm your host, Matt Blackburn and today, I'm interviewing Dr. Carolyn Dean. Carolyn is a naturopathic doctor that has authored over 50 books, including the best seller, "The Magnesium Miracle" And in 2015, she launched her company RnA ReSet, and introduced the product ReMag to the world. Carolyn was the first person to popularize magnesium therapy, and spread the word on how powerful magnesium supplementation can be for optimizing overall health. So this was truly an honor to interview her it was a lot of fun to ask her different questions that she probably hasn't been asked before. I was shocked to learn about the Mag RBC test because that's considered a gold standard in the circle that I've been in the last several years, which is apparently not the case. So some myths are busted, she talks about different forms of magnesium, the marketing hype that goes into that. She talks about potassium, and why most people probably aren't getting enough potassium. Biohacking the body, talk about the C word. Hair tissue, mineral analysis tests, cold therapy, genetic testing, detox therapies, magnesium 3 and 8, parasites, vitamin D, vegetarianism, and veganism and iron. So this episode was jam packed. So get ready for a lot of information. Here is Dr. Carolyn Dean. All right. We're here with Carolyn Dean. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  02:28
Oh, thank you, Matt. Great to be here. Great to see your A frame it looks - I mean, you set yourself up in perfect portrait in your A frame. You planned that.

Matthew Blackburn  02:41
Yeah, it's funny. I was raised in, square regular houses in San Diego for the first, almost 30 years of my life and then I moved to the mountains and fell in love with pine trees and cabins and never looked back, so.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  02:56
With me it was mountains and ocean. I had to be near both. And seriously, here I am in Maui. I can look up that way to see Mt. Haleakalā and behind me is the ocean. It's - I'm just blessed, it's amazing.

Matthew Blackburn  03:13
That's awesome. That's really cool. Yeah and you were telling me before we started recording that you've been involved in biodynamic farming. Is that right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  03:24
Yeah, biodynamic, organic - w1ell, what would I say about all that? Okay, so my dad always had a vegetable garden and taught me all that stuff. I always tried to grow things wherever I lived. And when we ended up, my husband and I, when we ended up in New York, I joined a CSA, Community Supported Agriculture community where you pay a share in a farm, $200 - $300 up front and then when they're harvesting season comes, every week, they bring you a box of food. And when we moved out of New York in 2008, to Maui, I wanted to find something similar. So I just looked around, somebody told me about this farmer. I thought he was awesome. So I right away started flying him with tractors and money and whatnot. And he just didn't know what to do with me. I mean, when I get an idea for something, I just go for it. Because I think food of course, is the most important thing. But even then, Matt, to get to our other topics. I cannot live on just awesome organic fruits and vegetables. We all tried the vegetarian diet. For a lot of us it didn't work. It did not work for me at all. And even even the vegans and vegetarians that I've interacted with, even though they're drinking their 40 ounces of green drink a day and thinking they're on top of the world, they have their, their muscle cramps and their heart palpitations and their insomnia and their engine. And they are magnesium deficient, because the soil is has been depleted. And really, nobody knows how to replete the soil perfectly. Your body is the experiment and you find out when you try to eat perfectly that you don't feel perfect.

Matthew Blackburn  05:41
Yeah, that's well said. And our correspondents setting up this chat viewer saying that I'm like the Joe Rogan of health podcast, because I've had on so many different voices and all the different, as he said, like the body is the experiment. And actually, when I started this show, a few years ago, it was my, I don't know, I lost count sixth time trying the vegetarian diet. And it was my talk with the late Dr. Cass Ingram that he changed my mind just saying, animals were put here, by God or creation for our benefits. And just the way he said things kind of shifted me. But yeah, that's why I love having a show is each guest just kind of propels me forward.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  06:29
Right? Well, three things. It's also that you let us go on for hours. That's a Joe Rogan-ism. And my worst experience with a non animal protein diet was macrobiotics. I think the doctor who's, a friend of mine, he was trying to push me into it, I think he pushed me, to do it longer than I should have, I ended up with pneumonia. Now, it wasn't a bacterial pneumonia, it was just sort of brass being I put my stethoscope to my chest. And *wheezing* so I realized - this is what I realized that I was building up fluid in my lungs, because they didn't have enough protein to work the balance of the fats, carbohydrates and protein, there's - there's a balance for a reason. So the moment that an hour after I ate my chicken meal, my lungs were clear. So everybody's the experiment and in that case, and the third point, I forget what, what it was.

Matthew Blackburn  07:43
Yeah, and there's always outliers, like where someone could thrive on a pure carnivore diet or have like, pure fruitarian friends that are genius, talking about genetics and stuff and but I think that's like 1% on either end of the outliers. Most people need a balance of all the nutrients and everything.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  08:01
Well, the percentage is interesting, Matt, because when you looked up statistics about the percentage of vegans, vegetarians - 4%. So that 4% has a megaphone voice of like 100% making all the rest of us feel quote, less than, we all you're, you're not whatever spiritual enough, well, it's terrible what's done to try to force people into vegetarian veganism. And, I'm a bit worked up about it, because my foster daughter she tried raw vegan for enough - well for decades and as her side effects and symptoms grew, the Guru's names of whom we all know, just kept telling her to be stricter. And it wasn't until her teeth started falling out that she said, "Yeah, I guess you were right, Carolyn." Well, but for her - I was right. But see, this is the problem if, if folks try it, and they don't do well, and then they're told, "Oh, you're just going through a detox, try harder", that's not good information. And unfortunately, medicine has, jumped ship on anything to do with with nutrition and wellness and lifestyle and supplements. They have been bought and sold by the drug companies so that the people that we think are supposed to be there for our health, the medical community that the doctor that makes a house call, they don't exist anymore. So we're left with folks like me and you who are like the Wild Wild West, we're just out there experimenting and passing on our results.

Matthew Blackburn  10:04
Yeah, yeah, absolutely I was - I always think about that, how we didn't get a manual for this body and we kind of should have one. And we really have to figure out all of these things on our own and I think the confusion is by design, right to make us, you know, battle each other in this community. And I wanted to kind of segue because we've been talking about, you know, dieting, and kind of the judgment comes along with that, being in the supplement field. Like I often say, I used to hang out with my friend, at Sprouts, it's like a chain in California, in the supplement section, and just eavesdrop on conversations - just hours and hours and I'm just a fanatic. Like, it's a date for my girlfriend and I to go and read labels on stuff. But it's the philosophy around supplements have been, it's so interesting to me, because I'm seeing that there's this, there's like three camps, there's like growing camps, like whole food only supplements, and isolated supplements are harmful. Or those people that demonize certain supplements, like vitamin D, or zinc, or whatever it is. And then there's people that demonize all supplements. Those are like the carnivore naturalist crowd. And I think all of them are wrong. I think there's so much nuance and context, right? And so to discount, isolated supplements, because they're not whole food or they say all supplements don't work. It's a big topic, right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  11:33
It is and I guess that's where my history comes in. Because I've been at this since my late teens. And I'm in my early 70s now. So I've been at this from the time before, there were almost any books on the subject. Before there were health food stores in most cities. And the first supplements that came about were Whole Foods Supplements. That's where they came from. And and so then what happened, we went to, well, we can make the same chemical looking structure from coal tar, and you won't know the difference. So what happened there, by this time I'm in, I've done my medical training. And then I did my naturopathic and I knew what Prevention magazine told me and Adelle Davis and the early people before med school, that's why I went into med school because I kept, spouting all this stuff, no one would listen to me. So I said, "I'll teach you, I'll be a doctor, and then you'll have to listen to me." Seriously, Matt, I thought back then in the early mid 70s, that, within 10, 15, 20 years, all doctors would be MDs and naturopaths. I truly thought that because the health food industry was just beginning. But man, did medicine take the wrong turn, they went down the drug lane. So with the supplements, what happened when I was starting to do my naturopathic lectures - we had Jeffrey Bland. Have you come across that name?

Matthew Blackburn  13:25
I haven't.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  13:26
Dr. Jeffrey Bland. He's PhD, he started Metagenics, that company. So Jeffrey, he was this, guy with the biggest brain in the world. And he read all the studies and he spouted off these studies and look at this. And yeah, it was okay but then it was like, "Well, how do you apply that", you've got all this information. And, one study would contradict the next one and then the only people that seemed to be getting anything out of his lectures were the supplement industry. Where they would see as, a rat study which show that, Oh, choline is helpful for blah, blah, blah, and they'd rush off and produce a choline supplement. And after - so we've got the supplement industry, riding on the research and nobody really going for the clinical. And yet, then in the naturopathic world, we were told, first do no harm and go to nature first, and the body leads the way and the body wants to heal and priorities. But, then a lot of allopathic and philosophy gets pulled into naturalopathy but that's a whole other topic. In terms of the supplements, what I saw happening with my MD and naturopath friends is, Oh well these synthetic supplements - two and four milligrams to the B's doesn't work. Let's do 10 - oh, well, let's do 20, let's do 100. So they had to keep going up to get a reaction and there's no research to show it. But common sense just tells you well, the body didn't want that synthetic B vitamin, it kept rejecting it. But when you force 50, 100 milligrams, are you kind of finally disintegrating the receptor sites and, and forcing the issue? So I saw all that happening and then the next stage was, well, the 100 milligrams oral isn't working, let's do IM, intramuscular injections, oh, well, then let's do IV. And certainly by the time you get to IM an IV, there's nothing organic or natural about any of that. It has to be a synthetic. So the whole system got perverted and  what I personally did when, I observed all this, I was working with patients, I was in a medical practice, taking medical billing, but really being a naturopath. I didn't have to go to the drugs. It was so rare that the pharmacist would would show up, are you are you sure you wrote a drug prescription because they or they down at the hospital? They X-ray people. Are you sure you want this X ray? You never order X rays? Or I heard the rumor that well, Dr. Dean ordered it, she must think something's there so we better find it. So that's the way I practice as a naturopath watching all this, watching the supplement industry become - I mean, what is it now billions of dollars? And since, well, the past, I guess - well, at least 20 years, the drug companies have been trying to take over the supplement industry. And that came about - have you followed the Codex Alimentarius?

Matthew Blackburn  17:12
Yeah, I've heard that they're gonna ban - I know, with COVID, they threatened to ban was the N-acetyl cysteine and they had a list. I could just never tell if it's from a blog post or if it's legitimate, you know?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  17:27
Well, yeah. What happened in in the early 2000s, I started getting involved with going to meetings in Europe, with the World Health Organization, the World Trade Organization, created this Codex Alimentarius committee, I guess you'd say, to standardize chemicals and toxins in food, and dietary supplement. So think about it, the World Trade Organization - they want as much toxicity in the foods as possible to appease the industry. And with supplements, their stated goal, was to use low dose synthetic supplements that don't interfere with drugs. Seriously. So they've wanted all the countries in the world to sign on to this low dose, synthetic, get rid of high dose and everything. As far as I know, the the United States signed on immediately, hopefully, that gets get thrown out with all the other things that get thrown out in 2016, but I don't know. Because now there's, some guy I don't want to say the wrong name, but there's some bill out now that are trying to get a list of supplements and all their ingredients so that they can start tossing out supplements. So knowing all this from the early 2000s, I was in in Bonn, Germany, and Rome, Italy, and I just saw the writing on the wall that they were trying to trash dietary supplement. And when I, I get to the point where in my personal story about supplements, when I was in New York in the late 90s, Random House asked me to write a book on magnesium, because I had already written some health books and I was on local TV and in Manhattan and all and I thought, one mineral, how can you write 300 pages on one mineral, get out of town. So I, of course, took the job, took the assignment, and found out that I was a poster child for magnesium deficiency. I had the headaches and the neck tension and the insomnia and horrible charley horse muscle cramps and back pain. And still, I thought it was like 100% productive, but I had all this stuff going on. And when I, I looked at the supplements I was taking, I was just taking like 10 milligrams of magnesium or something. And when I started taking more magnesium, I immediately got the laxative effect. So I wrote this book on magnesium, showing that actually, in the updated version 2017, I found that 80% of non metabolic functions require magnesium. 80%. And that might translate into about 1000 enzyme systems. So, I've realized, I mean, that was, to me, it was mind blowing. Over the years, all the supplement companies use my book to push their magnesium. But I spent 10 years following the publication, trying to find a company that would make a non laxative magnesium, because what I had to do was to, do epsom salt bath, slather myself with magnesium lotions, to try to get enough to keep my heart palpitations away. And finally, I got a chemist who he had some notion that he could concentrate magnesium, and stabilize the ions, so that you had an ionic form of the elemental magnesium, that would just shoot right into the cell and go to work. So I worked with him, funded him, and then he produced the goods, a magnesium that 60,000 parts per million, a teaspoon is equal to 300 milligrams, it's a liquid. And whereas before, 10, 20 milligrams of magnesium will give me a laxative effect, I could take 1200 milligrams of this stuff, with no laxative effect, and just watch all my symptoms, just leave my body, it took a while, it did take a year and a half, to where I could go a day or two without my what I call pico meter ionic stabilized magnesium, where I could not take it and not get my symptoms back. So which proves that I had stored magnesium, etc, etc. And at the same time, if and - by then, a year and a half, I was down to only 300 to 450 milligrams a day, I was down to sort of what we say is the, RDA of magnesium. Now, if I go up to 600 milligrams or more, I will get the laxative effect, which again proves to be that I'm saturated, I don't need more, and that the body has this incredible failsafe mechanism with magnesium, I think it's, it might be the only nutrient that does this failsafe, if you take too much, you'll have the laxative effect. Once you're saturated, you have to get past that because, we'll have people who will take this, this ReMag and I'm purposely not giving the names because I don't want to be advertising. And also, because of the alphabet people have, put a curse on me. So with with taking these minerals, we've come to the point where we can make them in in all forms like a multiple mineral will have 12 minerals. And when I was creating that formula, I realized that nine of those minerals are required to support thyroid function. And when we were doing the trials on it, I found after about six weeks, I no longer needed my 60 milligrams of Armour Thyroid, my hands were finally warm, which were, still cold on the Armour Thyroid. So minerals rule, everybody knows it but nobody's using the right form of minerals to get the absorption, so that you don't have to go high potency and suffer side effects and all the rest of it.

Matthew Blackburn  24:49
Wow, that was awesome. Yeah, I went the hard route, I was doing foot baths and it's not practical for most people because I was getting, I don't know, eight pound bag eggs or whatever it was, they're very heavy and I had to get filtered water and back then I was heating the water on the stove, fill my copper foot bags. And that seemed to help but it's it was very labor intensive versus, like the rebag could be a lot easier for most people. And then I got into making magnesium bicarbonate home, which kind of started trending. I think thanks to me the last three years. But that's that's super, super laxative effect, it is very cheap to make. And some people make the argument that it's the most natural form. Now the HCO3, that's like, I think Russell Beckett studied animals and found, their lifespan increased 20 to 30%, just because they had this magnesium bicarbonate in the water. But my philosophy on nutrients is like, it's not one best form, it's a - but we don't need all the forms at the same time. It's kind of somewhere in the middle.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  25:59
Oh, yeah, you can rotate through forms. But you take someone like me, and I don't know the percentage of people who have this severe laxative effect, but certainly, the customers that approached me, they're on a lot of medication, they're toxic. And I have a phrase that I use, "Too toxic to detox" where, that type of person will go to a practitioner, with, being on like 12 drugs and a bad diet and overweight and fluid retention. And the first thing a practitioner will say, "Well, we have to put you on a detox" Anything we give you is going to be wasted because you're this and that. I mean, it's just, we have to stop you eating all these foods. And we have, and it's just too much I mean, most new, whatever patients will just walk away. And what I say to people is, "Okay, well, if you can get a magnesium in you, that you can take in drop form until you get up to the teaspoon, that you could even spray on your skin until you can take it by mouth, then you've got some options." If you say to someone who who has been allergic to everything they say, they say, every time they take a new supplement, I start having having a toxic reaction. Well, they may be having a die-off a yeast overload die-off. They may be detoxifying crap, but they look upon - and which we say, Oh, that's great, but for them, it's straw that can break their bag, you have to approach people where they are, you cannot just, have this set of don't do this, don't do that, like you're their, their judge. Clinically, you will learn this and, there are a lot of people out there that, as you alluded to earlier, they'll find their cure, and then try to talk everybody else into it. Or they'll just keep jumping from cure to cure. Whereas, seriously, Matt, it is about giving the body the building block and letting it do the work. But the building blocks have to be easily absorbed with the vitamins I work with, the B's are food based and methylated. I mean, we knew about this methylation problem a long time ago with zinc now, it's zinc with copper. I mean, I was around when Carl Pfeiffer was beating the drum about copper toxicity. And everybody began to be afraid of copper and okay, afraid of copper compounds but then at the same time, copper is invaluable to the body - what the arteries need copper to stay flexible. How many things can we say about copper, so what you need with copper is bioavailable copper. And seriously, I'm not gonna eat enough liver to give me the copper I need. I'm just not and, and, the whole liver business, I'm on the board of the Gerson Institute. I knew Charlotte Gerson and she told me years ago that they had a very hard time getting liver that they trusted because everything was so contaminated. Even the organic grass fed whatever, the environment is toxic. And then you you sidebar from that. So what do you? I mean, I remember the days where where people were going out in the wilderness living in the little little shack, drinking spring water just trying to avoid all the pollutions. People with food allergies, "I'll avoid all these foods, seriously, we cannot live like that, we have to build our body, we have to keep strengthening it, I think the cut off with me and Charlotte Gerson and I realized, okay, this is too far out. She looked at my toenails, I color all my toes with different colors. And so she saw my toenails and she said, "Oh, I could never wear nail polish. I tried it once and it made me faint." You cannot live your life like that. You have to adapt, adopt and survive. So my adaptation I realized, came when I started to look into magnesium, got myself saturated, okay, I get 80% of my body working, what's left? And that's where my experiments came in. But then when I looked at various things, like the copper problem, I said, Oh, okay, well, I'm taking care of all these different things about copper, my ceruloplasmin is fine because I'm doing all these wonderful things. So that means my ceruloplasmin is finding out my copper and my iron. Okay, so that taken care of, everywhere I looked, if you were giving your body a grounding in, in the supplements that we all know we need, then you were taking care of things. And knowing that is probably half the battle, Matt, because what I do, in the physical world of medicine, I'm looking at magnesium deficiency and mineral, all the minerals, if you're deficient in magnesium, they're all going to be low, you can't separate them. And then there's yeast overgrowth, we can talk about that too. The toxins from yeast will attract more infections. When I had yeast overgrowth, I'd love my ice cream and sugar every day and birth control pill and all the rest of it. So, once I got into the hospitals and you have to do hospital rotations and second, third, fourth year, I developed Staphylococcal Nasal Boils and people who have yeast overgrowth will develop that because of the terrain, the environment sets you up for it. So I think a lot of people with yeast overgrowth will develop other viruses or whatever. When I left Toronto, I went to New York to do AIDS research. During the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, I was asked to do a homeopathic acupuncture herbal modality, and we had great results with the, with our patients up until, Fauci made them leave and take AZT, which killed them. So with our eight patients, they all had all the viruses on blood tests, they had a lot of bacterial infection, they all had parasites, and they all had yeast. And so that was my learning curve about infections that we all have a infectious load and how I work with that it's, for forever, I've been treating yeast overgrowth, but it came to a point where it was just too strict, rotating the antifungals that's where I met Cass Ingram and his oregano oil and, and he was a wonderful guy. I can't believe he passed away. I just can't, I heard that on one of your podcasts. So yeah, he was doing great work with oregano, but even oregano oil was very strong, it would kill off some good bacteria as well. So probiotics are important and I like your work with Shilajit. I use humic fulvic - I use the humic fulvic and some and saccharomyces boulardii in my yeast treatment, and I finally decided rather than rotating people, do this for three months and see how you do, seriously, the way the world is now with the stress and the diet and try not to be 100% fanatic. I think people need a daily antifungal. So personally, I'm taking a couple capsules of my Flora Revive, which is the saccharomyces boulardii, and the humic, fulvic, and Pico Silver. So silver is what will help people with all the layers of infection. We have people who will do this thing in a pico meter size, stabilized line of silver, not at all like colloidal silver. The thing is, when you have something that is stabilized ion of a mineral, it's you cannot see it, even on there's something called a nano sizer that we did in one of our studies, I'm doing university studies on magnesium absorption and whatnot. So, they put the ReMag in a in a clear, bell jar, and they shone a laser through it, and if there are, if there are solid particles in the liquid, it will bounce off, the laser will bounce off the solid particles. Well, this laser just went through, no solid particles, which means they are at an, pick a meter size they are small enough to to absorb into the cell so this silver is not like a colloid that will build up your tissues and turn your blue. And what we've seen, I mean silver is still used as an antibiotic to protect people after they've had terrible burns. That's the only thing that works is putting a silver medication on them. And with the research, one of the things that really made me just buzz about, about this ionic silver, is it stimulates stem cell production. So if you've got something that won't constantly, keep your stem cells turning over and then those naive cells will go to the tissues where you need support. I mean, that's the holy grail right there to me, or one of the holy grails and we're up against, people who transplant stem cells, heaven forbid they're using fetal cells and they're doing it in clinics and the doctors that I've talked to, who tell me about this they say yeah, it does work, you put these stem cells and people but if they don't take proper supplementation change or diet or change your lifestyle they go back to right back to where they were. So they, something that naturally stimulates your stem cells is awesome. So where were we Matt?

Matthew Blackburn  38:20
That was awesome. I love listening to you. A lot of this stuff I've been looking into lately like you mentioned Carl Pfeiffer, I went back and read a lot of his old books and he was, high dose niacin to treat schizophrenia in a lot of people and some of those stories are miraculous and I, it has to be better than pharmaceuticals even if it's, cold (unintelligible) but yeah, the silver, my neighbor, his cat got its throat ripped open like about a month ago and he just put some silver gel on it - I think silver sol, like a popular product and it helps peel it up and I gave the cat a grounding sheet so it was grounded because it lives in his shop, mainly. But it's amazing, I mean, it's a good - it's a great first aid to have around, too. I get cuts and scrapes here all the time on the farm and you need something to put on it, so.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  39:19
Or for eye infections. You can drop it just - the R form. I don't know about other forms, but you can drop it straight in the eye because it doesn't burn or staying. It's really quite, quite miraculous. Where were you - getting into about Pfeiffer? Oh, yeah, the schizophrenia. Yeah, I knew Abram Hoffer up in Canada. I knew him personally. He was awesome. He did the high dose, the megavitamin therapy for schizophrenia and a company that's kind of taken that on and been under some attack up in Canada is truehope.com. Because I'm an online company, I don't presume to treat depression or schizophrenia or anything like that. So I refer people to truehope.com. And they have something called EMPowerplus, which is high dose of all the nutrients. I mean, it is very much kitchen sink. But when you're dealing with something like depression or schizophrenia, you need the kitchen sink. But the amazing part of what they've done, Matt, is they've done research studies, like dozens of them, showing that this stuff works. And what we do when we refer people, we say, you can take their products, but you have to keep taking our ReMag, because you're always gonna need more ReMag. And just very good results. So there are things out there that that we've come across, but yeah, the whole schizophrenia thing, and Carl Pfeiffer and pyroluria, I mean, I look at all that, how they were going into the weeds about the different reactions in the body. But I do wonder if, again, you get enough magnesium and your other minerals, can the body deal with it? And the what did we do in the past two decades, maybe, we went into the genetics. We did the whole genome project, and what happened there, the researchers who put the billions of dollars into it, or spent the billions of dollars, they thought they would find a gene that created such and such and they could snip it out and say, "Voila, you're cured." And they theorize that they could, there would be 100,000 genes in the body and they could just snip at will, they found 23,000 genes, a quarter of what they thought, so it freaked them out totally, because then they realize, oh, the genes aren't working on their own. They they need, they're either working together or as, as we found out, it's epigenetics with all the different vitamins and minerals that are cofactors in turning genes on and off. I mean, I remember a study, a rat study where rats were, what was I think they were obesity rats. So they were, it was very easy to get them to be obese. So they explained the obesity gene. But they - if they gave those obesity, gene rats, enough B vitamins, they got thin. So the B vitamins turned off their obesity gene and, that's, it sounds simple, and it is simple. I mean, that's one of the things like I'm sure you've run across this, Matt, when you come across something simple that really works. And people say, "Oh, that's impossible. It's too simple." We see that all the time when people take our ReMag and, they're probably taking it for restless legs or leg cramps, and then they say, "Oh my gosh, my headaches are gone, I'm sleeping better and my heart palpitations are gone." The biggest epidemic now in medicine seems to be heart palpitations, atrial fibrillation, and I don't know, maybe it's because they're doing the EKG on everyone. Or maybe it's their watch whatever it's called. Is it an iWatch? Or the Fitbits or whatever. They're measuring the pulse and and diagnosing atrial fibrillation and heart palpitations, sending people off to the doctor, and there put on anticoagulant, blood thinners, and scared right out of their brains. And it may be a magnesium and potassium deficiency. We've, we're fighting that it's well,

Matthew Blackburn  44:27
I love that. Yeah, I think earlier you're saying at percent of known functions of the body require magnesium and I, I found like that magnetosome study, it was like 3751 proteins or magnesium. And I'm a big like, EMF guy, but not into like the pendants and the pyramids and stuff. My number one tip for people with EMFs is get your magnesium levels up and supplement magnesium because that's the natural protection. Isn't magnesium involved in like making our biofield - it's making energy thus, it's kind of supporting our, like forcefield?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  45:09
I think where - I think the scientific words would be that magnesium helps reduce the calcium levels, because it's those calcium ion channels that apparently are affected by EMF. So what would it be it would be like the calcium ion channels are, are blasted open with the EMF, a lot of calcium goes into the cells, and the cells just quiver to death. But the magnesium, it is responsible for opening and closing the channel. So if you have enough magnesium, the channels stay closed. We've - it's in my Magnesium Miracle book, I talk about the EMFs and try to get people not to worry about them too much but I do joke about it. I'm, I volunteer at the farmers market. And so the farm, I help with twice a week I go to the farmers market and pay cash and everything and, and we have our little swipe card machines and and we're all agog. It takes two seconds to run them up, and I think yeah, we're, we're good until the EMP hits. Electromagnetic pulse. Because, everything's just gonna go down. And that's why you have - you created the plan B by having your homestead because you'll be fine.

Matthew Blackburn  46:47
Hopefully, I have one, what's it called, the thing that fries if there's an EMP safe shield or says something plugged into the inline of my solar setup, between the panels and the batteries, inverters. But yeah, we do our best, I mean I often think, you can't be fully off grid. It's like, I still need propane, diesel and gasoline for all my different machines, skidsteer and stuff. So until we have free energy, I actually had, I had some friends visit a couple months ago, it came from like a Free Energy Conference in Washington, near me, and supposedly they had working machines, they're showing how they worked and - you couldn't buy anything. It was all just schematics but I mean, that'd be really nice. I've been dreaming of that being out here. Like, that saved me a lot of time. But anyway, yeah, back to-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  47:44
Well, then I know that's definitely coming. I know people who are - who have it, who have done it. So it's just a matter of how to release it without getting killed.

Matthew Blackburn  47:57
Yeah, they were saying as soon as he sign that document to open that factory, they you know, defibrillate your heart or whatever. So it's -

Dr. Carolyn Dean  48:09
It's a toss up, you know, which way to go?

Matthew Blackburn  48:14
Yeah, but definitely go in a direction. And yeah, kind of meditating on this call. I was thinking about, we started this interview with like, growing food and I figured that was a good way to segue into supplements because when I moved here a few years ago, I helped my neighbor with fibromyalgia using systemic enzymes, and it reduced by 90% in a few months. And he asked me once he's like, "Matt, how long do I have to keep taking these supplements?" Or, "Why do we have to keep taking these supplements?" And I thought that was a good question. And the answer would be, well, are the environmental toxins and we're not getting them in the food as you said, the soils depleted. I interviewed Geoff Lawton, couple years ago, and he is like the world's - he's like a world famous permaculturist. And he was basically saying it's the pH of the soil that when that's off, the plants lose access to different minerals. I thought that was a really good explanation. So it's the pH that opens and closes the doors to allow access for minerals to get into the roots matrix and but-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  49:24
Well there's pH and there's the organisms themselves that get killed with the, with the fertilizers and directly killed with herbicides and pesticides. That's another thing that I'm working on. One of our products is, is germinated barley seeds. We have something called RNA drops, and, and we have these huge, it might be 200 gallon drums that rotate the barley seeds and we never threw away the straw that was left over after we made this liquid. So that straw, the barley straw, we call it mighty mash. And we had experiences with it, people using it as kind of a fertilizer helped their plants along. So I brought him over to the farm here and we we put the straw in a plot and planted radishes. And another plot same size, just adjacent we didn't put any of the barley straw. And after the 25 - 26 day growing season, we harvested the mighty mash radishes, we had 85 pounds of the most gorgeous red radishes. And in the non straw plot, we had 3 pounds that were usable, the rest of them had been wormed and just stunted in their growth from all the weeds and everything. So what did I get from that? I mean, first of all, the way we grow our barley, it's a prebiotic probiotic, it's a life form. It's living. So what that mighty match fertilizer's doing is giving life force to the plant and making them reject pathogens. It's like the prime directive of pathogens is you go to the weakest. So they went to the weak radishes next door, didn't bother with the strong ones who had lifeforce and that's what humans are, are doing.  We have our life force. I mean, we have our energetics and, and our RNA drops, although that's my big experiment with the RNA drops, because we can't, I don't have a billion dollars to do a study of giving them to, 100 people and giving another 100 people water. So, giving them the lifeforce and that's - it's the same kind of thing with certain supplements, especially the minerals that are electrolytes. I think of the machinery that, I went through the radionics and all the Xylitol machines, all the different machines, they require energy from the body, you're measuring the energy from the body, or the treatments, the energy machine treatments, your body has to have electrolytes to produce the energy to give you the reading and or to, improve your your function. So, to me, it always goes back to the minerals. I don't even bother with the machines anymore, because I know it's all about the minerals.

Matthew Blackburn  53:00
What about ozone? Because you were - you're talking about yeast overgrowth, and you've talked about Candida and different things and I've done rounds of rectal ozone insufflation. My friend Charles, down in Texas got me into that. And I just felt I mean, I put it in my ears, the gas, definitely a buzz and definitely clear minded. And yeah, it's funny, you mentioned genetics too I'm trying to tick off our long list of subjects to talk about, but my genetics test setup, more prone to airborne mold. And I was raised in a beach house in California, where my mom said there was mold. And so I'm just kind of connecting the dots my allergies and brain fog. I'm like yeah, I probably had some mold exposure growing up. Interesting. Which ozone supposedly-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  53:51
Yeah, ozone. Obviously, it's awesome. I, when I was doing my naturopathic training, I hung out with a doctor who was using ozone. I mean, I think it's important that in dentistry, to use ozone when you're doing a root canal, etc. I've used those in aged water when I used to wash my vegetables. I don't bother washing vegetables anymore from the farm because I want that dirt. But it's for me the the Pico Silver really took over because I can nebulize the Pico Silver, whereas, hydrogen peroxide you have to dilute it and then it sort of irritating but I can nebulize Pico Silver, but mostly I just squirt Pico Silver in my nostrils every couple of days or so and that keeps everything awesome. So yeah, there are  choices. There are choices and ozone is definitely something, for example, in cancer therapy or in a clinic, that would be something that people should use.

Matthew Blackburn  55:11
I like what you said that the body wants to heal on priorities, I like how you worded that. And for people like us, it's like, I'm just like, let me experiment with everything. But a lot of people that just want to heal and get back to balance, they want to know, like, Okay, what are the priorities of things to do, supplements or devices? And yeah, I think magnesium, what you were saying, is definitely one of the top and it's - Burning question I have for you, Carolyn is testing because there seems to be mixed - there always is with tests, and mixed opinions. I was under the impression that magnesium red blood cell was the gold standard, but now I'm hearing about an ionized calcium, and all of these other ways to measure it, because my magnesium RBCs last time he measured like 6.3, or 6.4 - really strong, but then I've heard that can be falsely elevated, kind of like iron. So there's - just curious your thoughts in general on magnesium testing?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  56:14
Right. Yeah, that's the big thing. Because certainly, we know that serum magnesium test is very inaccurate. I mean, you just have to look at the range. It's like what 1.8 to 2.2, and that teeny, teeny range because if it if it's out of range, then the heart starts getting thrown off. So the range in the body is to protect the heart from, from having palpitations, atrial fibrillation or whatever. If it goes low, then it triggers off a feedback mechanism. And then magnesium comes out of the muscles and bones. And so because it's always looked normal in most people, and it's so narrow, even in the hospitals, they don't bother with it. In magnesium, that's why magnesium is not on an electrolyte panel. Seriously, you look at electrolyte panel, sodium, potassium, chloride, no magnesium, and magnesium is the most important mineral in the whole universe. And when I started looking into it, then the RBC, magnesium came up and, okay, it's got a, it's got a broad range. But what happened is, even in the few years that I was looking at it, the range started getting lower, as people's magnesium levels got lower. So a range of a blood test, it's going to show what that lab - what that labs, clients, blood looks like. It's not an average, it's not an optimum. It's just, oh, Sam, and Betty walked in, and we did their blood a-+nd here's the range. And as people got more magnesium deficient, the range fell lower. Instead of like, 4.2 at the bottom, it's 3.2. So now a doctor can say, "Oh, you're 3.2, you're fine." Seriously, when 80% of the population is deficient in magnesium, you want to be at that top end, like 6.8 or so. So and so you're good. You're at the top end, that's awesome and the thing I have against the red blood cell magnesium and why it's kind of, I guess, inaccurate, or whatever, is red blood cells do not have mitochondria. They don't have mitochondria. Where does the magnesium hide out in the cell, in the mitochondria? So they're testing an area that doesn't have - it'll just have the magnesium that kind of wandered in the bloodstream and it's not being held there. So yeah, the the research I'm doing, the first study was out of Purdue, the next one is going to be University of Minneapolis. We were comparing a red blood cell magnesium and ionized magnesium and the absorption and all the rest of it. We're trying to get the the magnesium research establishment to accept the fact that we need to do ionized magnesium testing to find out, who's sick and who's not. But then, so we'll do that. Oh, look, oh my goodness, everybody's low in magnesium, what to do, what to do? And then they'll say, oh take magnesium oxide. Oh my gosh, everybody's got the laxative effect. This is horrible, stop, so they stopped taking magnesium so it's crazy time because the all the magnesium - early magnesium research was on magnesium oxide. Most doctors think, well okay that's the magnesium we use and then oh, come to find out only 4% of magnesium oxide, magnesium is absorbed, the rest goes out through the urine and the intestine. And how did that come about that magnesium oxide get top billing, some very smart lady in magnesium oxide company offered free samples to all the researchers and magnesium oxide it's in all the papers and it still works even at 4%, even without a lack of effect, it works you look at all the research papers, magnesium doses that gets into the brain even and you have these Magnesium L-Threonate, yahoo's coming along and saying oh our magnesium is the only one that could get into the brain. And they did such a good job that everyone is brainwashed to think it's true, even though as far as I could see from that paper they did on the rats was there was a 7% difference in the amount of magnesium in the spinal fluid of these poor little rats of the 3 they compared to the citrate and I may have it all wrong because I really don't bother with a lot of research papers because you can - sidebar sidebar, when I was in junior high school I was on the debating team, I could debate either side and win. You can take facts and just mangle them, massage them any way you like. So with this magnesium oxide business, they have a way in the government of saying, "Well, we have to keep the RDA at, 3 - 400 because people have side effects." And they don't realize it's just bad absorption.

Matthew Blackburn  1:02:20
Yeah, I'm glad that you brought up the threonate because there's, there's companies out there marketing, "Our magnesium contains all seven forms of magnesium and you need all seven, because they all go to different places." But I'm glad to hear that you're in agreement that it all gets into the brain, right? It all goes to the mitochondria. It's not, there's nothing special with different forms necessarily unless maybe you need whether it's chloride or if you have a pancreas issue and maybe you need bicarbonate, maybe there's kind of that aspect or the sulfate for sulfur or sulfur deficient, but on that-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:02:59
Yeah, correct. I mean, you're not taking a magnesium compound for the other part of the compound, you're taking it for the magnesium, first of all, by chelating it or binding it to these other - they like the taurate or whatever. I mean, that's the way to get (unintelligible) is I guess you could say and both of them are low dose I mean, think of it when you do a magnesium hydroxide, 500 milligrams, saying a teaspoon of a powder. Only 200 milligrams is the  magnesium component, 300 is the OH2. When you look at, something like magnesium taurate, I think it's like 75 milligrams is the magnesium at a 500 milligram. When you look at threonate. It's for - one label I was just looking at for 2000 milligrams, they have on the label - 2000 milligrams, magnesium L-threonate you think you're getting 2000 milligrams of magnesium, you look on the label, elemental magnesium, 144 milligrams. When I tried one of these L-threonate compound, I was having to take - well, I would have to take 10 of them. But it would give - I was getting the laxative effect after two. So there's all that and all that going on besides the fact that in these the threonate compounds especially there's one, they say they make it oil based or something for better absorption and they put phosphoryl choline in it and it ends up being like $60 for thirty packets and it's hugely expensive, everybody complains about the price. But whatever they got there, they got a phosphatidylcholine, which was an awesome supplement on its own, they've got threanine, which is an awesome brain supplement on its own, and they've got a little bit of magnesium. So what's doing the work? And it's all marketing and as far as I can see that the threonate, its patented. So it's, it's like a push by the drug company to start patenting our formulas, doubling the price, and then, making it unavailable to a lot of people, and etc.

Matthew Blackburn  1:05:47
Yeah, absolutely. There's definitely something to amino acid therapy and I guess, the question is, is two grams of taurine or glycine, bound to magnesium, beneficial? But yeah, it depends, I guess what your target dose of magnesium is, and budgeting and all of that. But I want to ask you, Carolyn about like magnesium retention, because I enjoy Facebook forums, and they can be dangerous. But people comment some interesting things and there's this thing going around that, I don't need to supplement magnesium anymore, because I'm retaining it, because I'm taking boron, or copper, or whatever they say, I think boron is the big one to retain magnesium, because some people take 100 milligrams a day. But I wanted to talk about like retention and cofactors. Because I don't know if those are synonymous, there's like B6 right and different things with it.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:06:46
Right. Yeah. I mean, that's a good question and it is in the realm of theorizing, because I don't, I mean, there hasn't been any good nutrition studies on dietary supplements, since they just named them all and then they turned away. So it is, we're just making things up and experimenting. But magnesium, I know for a fact that magnesium is very dynamic. And it'll go out of your body when you're under stress. If I eat two cups of yogurt, two days in a row, I start getting heart palpitations. Because the calcium is bumping up my magnesium. That's how dynamic magnesium is. So I and I, as I said, I've done experiments where I'll go a day or so without taking my ReMag and do okay, but then I'm, I know, if I went longer, I would start getting my symptoms back. Now, that does not mean I'm addicted to magnesium. It's just me - it may mean I have an extra requirements for it, but it's food. Are you going to say well stop eating food, and you'll be fine. Because you're - you've got storage of whatever. Yeah, I mean, the keto people will say that, and I do intermittent fast. And, yeah, I've gotten to the point where I only need two meals a day. But I think it's because I take all my nutrients. I take low potency, well absorbed nutrients and so my body's not fighting through the food to try to get the nutrients. There's no way I would ever say that, that you can stop your intake of magnesium and let other things take over. Boron, why do you want to go high dose boron all the sudden, when you look at the way the thyroid hormones are made, there's a there's a chain of about nine reactions as I understand it, I mean, I'm sure I'm just making this up too. But when you need the nine minerals to make thyroid hormones, I envision that, okay, you've got your iodine so you've got your - and all I do in my formula is it's an RDA of iodine. I don't go high dose and that RDA iodine goes along and then the next chemical interaction requires selenium. Good. And then the next one requires boron. Good. And then you go down the chain, (unintelligible), zinc, they're all there. If you hide those iodine, for example, you're gonna make so much of the next chemical, that the selenium is not going to be able to cope or the selenium is over utilized and it's not available to be other incredible things that it's supposed to be doing which includes cancer reduction, cancer prevention, for Pete sakes. And the same with boron,you front load this next chemical and then you overload - utilize the next cofactor, that is not common sense. And that's what everybody is doing with these high dose of, of anything except magnesium. And I say that - not laughing at all, I say it very seriously, because you need it for 80% of normal metabolic functions. I mean, have people not heard that, and, 1000 enzyme functions, etc. And you have the failsafe if you don't - if you take too much, the body will dump it. And you know where I heard that came from Matt, is when we civilization grew up near the ocean and the ocean water has three times more magnesium and calcium. So food, fish and algae, and whatnot from the ocean will give you more magnesium. So the body adapted to, oh, we have enough magnesium. Oh, but maybe we don't have enough calcium. Okay, let's make the vitamin D work on that and, absorb it and then what did we do in our society? We O.D'd on fortifying everything with calcium, and forcing women to take all this high dose calcium, and just avoiding the heck out of magnesium.

Matthew Blackburn  1:11:49
Yeah, that's a great point about the balance. I enjoy watching the high dose stuff. Because it shows me like-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:12:01
It's Kamikaze. But oh, I see what's connecting, yeah, they did that - they used to do that with when they started intravenous feeding, when they had to feed someone entirely intravenously, they would, put all these nutrients in it. And then, "Well, what will happen if we take out the zinc?" and then they find out the side effects. That's what you're doing?

Matthew Blackburn  1:12:27
Yeah, I'm mostly observing, like vitamin D, I changed my mind on recently, largely because of genetics. Said it I think a million times now on the show, but I have a doctor friend that he showed himself midsummer, on the beach, shirtless, and he tested his 25OHD was low. And it's because he had a mutation and the ability to synthesize it from ultraviolet light. It's called a DLCR7. It's basically the gene that controls the sulfation of cholesterol, and they call it, calciferol and I mean, it's a big deal. Like some people really do need to supplement it and it doesn't need to be 50,000, 100,000 international units, but I just realized recently, like, no matter how much sun someone gets, sometimes it is not enough. And it's not just because they have an infection, it could be genetics. There's there's always individual factors, right with people and-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:13:24
Right, right. I heard you in one of your podcasts, I forget who it was with you said, "Yeah and Dr. Carolyn Dean, she's taking 10,000 units of vitamin D, what's that about?" And that's when I was doing my high dose vitamin D experiment. Because I, when I started to put out a D3 K2 product, before that, I wanted to find out well, I think I'd gotten that vitamin D, I live in Maui, I sun my - I tan my leg and I think I was taking a low dose vitamin D. My vitamin D was 19, one - nine, so I was below the 20, cut off or you're going to drop over. And I thought that's interesting. Cuz I didn't feel it, I mean, what the vitamin D symptoms and that's another crazy thing is all the symptoms mash into one another. It's like the vitamin D deficiency symptoms but like magnesium deficient, so I didn't know. So of course, I started taking them higher dose vitamin D with K2 because the K2 is important to push the calcium into the bones as is magnesium. And, my D went up, I'm in the 50 - 60s now and that's fine, but my magnesium, which had our B, C, magnesium had been up around 68 or so came down to 59 - 58. So I, my extra vitamin D was using up the magnesium, which is what I talk about, and why I think a lot of vitamin D studies are screwed up because they don't look at magnesium. And that's what a lot of people are missing. And then, you look at the all the, the vitamin D research, it's big now, because of the immune system, people think it's important. And I had been told by people that, "Well, vitamin D is a hormone, so you only need little and if it's low, then it means the body doesn't need it anymore, because it's a hormone." And then you look at the people who are, 100% doing vitamin D research and they say, oh, yeah, they kind of pat people on the head. No, dear. No, it's - there's the one part of the vitamin D goes to this hormone and takes care of the (unintelligible). But then there's this whole other part, that's not a hormone, that does all self signaling and all the tissue stuff. And it's like, "Who are you going to believe in anymore?" And so I try to balance them both. It's like, instead of going for the benign T of vitamin D, okay, I'll go for for 50 - 60 and I don't want to be 19. And even though I didn't feel any different, with or without it, but maybe my magnesium is really working on the vitamin D that I had. It's crazy, but I hear what you're saying. I experiment on myself all the time. What did I do recently? I think I took high dose, high dose zinc or it was something and I took too much of it. I mean, I knew okay, I'm taking too high. And I kept taking it. And seriously, half an hour later I was in the bathroom vomiting and with diarrhea, sweating head to toe. And then I took a shower, went and slept and got up and felt great. So I had some sort of purge, right and it's like, oh yay!

Matthew Blackburn  1:17:27
Have you heard of the zinc test, Carolyn? Cuz I think it's been around for years. Let the zinc sulfate you take a teaspoon - 10 seconds.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:17:37

Matthew Blackburn  1:17:37
It always tastes like water to me and that seems like a legitimate, like there's science behind it and if it tastes like water-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:17:46
You're deficient. But oh, man.

Matthew Blackburn  1:17:51
I thought zinc was evil for the last couple years. You get in these these health camps where it's like, this - iron is evil, zinc's evil, vitamin D's evil, they will kill you. And it's like, you get so scared and you just like, okay, and you're the authority, but like, I think realizing that we're the authority and we can experiment safely and there's - we don't have to fear as much, even though the world is crazy. And yeah, like you said about magnesium and D like I, I talked to a guy earlier this year that had intravenous vitamin D, I think they gave him something like 100,000 iu for COVID or something. And this is on top of oral supplementation and he ended up in the hospital with severe heart palpitations. And I was telling him I'm like, "Man, you drained all your magnesium, that's why you had heart palpatations."

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:18:47
Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. I know it is - It is kind of crazy, the people who tell you to go off vitamin D, zinc and vitamin C right in the middle of COVID. Oh, man, that was a bad move. That was a really bad move. Yes, please.

Matthew Blackburn  1:19:11
I was gonna say, that's proven right?.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:19:16
But all these things if you take them in moderation, I mean, maybe a study will show - well like the whole potassium business. You know why they relegated people to a 99 milligram dose. You're aware of that right? The only supplements you can get over the counter for potassium, the highest dose is 99 milligrams. Now, the RDA for potassium is 4,700.  So you would have to take what, 47 doses to get your one RDA of potassium, and anyway, that came up because there was some medical product back in the day of a potassium that was enteric coated. And when it got it made its way to the small intestine, it broke down or whatever and cause ulceration of the small intestinal mucosa. So people thought that this, oh, potassium is so horrible, it hurts people. But it was the other Excipient in the formula. So they ban potassium, relegating people to potassium purgatory, for decades. And what I found in working with magnesium is, as you've probably read potassium is very intimate with magnesium, if you if you're not absorbing magnesium or don't think you're getting magnesium in effects as much as you think it should, then you could be low in potassium, if you're low on potassium, you have to have magnesium for potassium to absorb, they're just so interconnected. But because of this, proscription against potassium, people just they'd say, Oh, take potassium broth, or take things that are pretty much harder and stuff that you have no idea what the milligrams are. And so, me being the MacGyver that I am, I decided that I'd make a Pico potassium. And instead of making a teaspoon dose of 99 milligrams, I had the - concentrate so the potassium, so a quarter teaspoon was 99 milligrams. So that's the dose. So when people take a teaspoon, they're getting almost 400 milligrams, which in this form is more like 800. So they're getting a good chunk of potassium. So we've got people who are able to transfer off their potassium medications, which give them like five and 10,000 milligrams or mil equivalents of potassium compound, which is very acidic and very hard to take. So anyway, potassium is very important.

Matthew Blackburn  1:22:36
That's cool. I didn't know you had a potassium product. And yeah, it's aware of some of that, but not that you can't buy over 99 milligrams. I was always curious, like when I see these electrolyte mixes at Costco and health food store, whatever. And the sodium to potassium ratio is so reversed. Even from a Google search, you search sodium to potassium ratio, and it's like, four to one, I think potassium to sodium, and all these electrolyte drinks are like five to one sodium to potassium. Way more sodium.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:23:10
I know, yeah. And athletes, you think of how they sweat out so much. I remember one, one military vet told me that,  in the Middle East, they they take their shirt and their T shirts off at the end of the day, and they'd hang them up and they turn into like boards with all the minerals that they sweated out. And what did they take for their electrolyte replacement? Sugar and salt. It's terrible. It's no wonder vets are so ill.

Matthew Blackburn  1:23:48
Yeah, what form is your pico potassium? Looking at your site, it looks pretty cool.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:23:55
It's liquid - it's a liquid. It's stabilized ion of potassium.

Matthew Blackburn  1:24:02
Oh, cool. That's awesome. Wow. Yeah, that's a big deal, I mean, me being way up here in North Idaho for a while I was trying to do the the adrenal cocktail and I stopped just because I was importing from all over the world, I'm getting Harmless Harvest coconut water from Thailand I'm getting oranges from whatever California and it's just not natural nor sustainable. And some people would say who cares, you're getting the nutrients but I'd rather do something more sustainable than importing from all over the planet to get my nutrients. Liquid concentrates, I guess is what I'm getting at so. But once I have the greenhouse, hopefully I'll have my fresh oranges and stuff, so.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:24:46
Oh my gosh, won't that be awesome? Yeah, good for you.

Matthew Blackburn  1:24:51
Yeah, appreciate it. Actually I have a little Goji plants, mostly those do well here in greenhouses, goji berries. So remember, that was like the OG superfood, right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:25:04
Yeah. What is it that we have? Oh my gosh, mangosteen, remember the mangosteen fad? We sell mangosteens on the farm. They are seriously fun. Anyway.

Matthew Blackburn  1:25:18
Yeah. Robert Kisara, I used to attend his lectures. I was like his top student for like years and he has a lychee farm. I think on the big Island. He will text me pictures, he's like, taking these - selling these like, it's a big market, I guess the lychees.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:25:36
Oh, yeah. Well, our lychee producer, I don't know if it's his farm, but they did not have a good crop this year. So we had a shortened season and they were they were more expensive than usual. But that's farming.

Matthew Blackburn  1:25:55
Well we're getting through our list here, Carolyn, I think we're about halfway through. How about, let's hit the top one. Biohacking the body. I think if you just wanted to share your philosophy on that because I know that term biohacking, It's kind of timely because that Los Angeles, Dave Asprey conference just happened. I attended that like four years in a row and I, supplements and devices, that's kind of my thing I really like seeing the latest stuff, but not - try not to fall for fads or things that are not effective or overpriced. So I love the vetting process of like, supplements and devices. But yeah, they're tech haul is kind of interesting. They have their exercise with oxygen, they have their hyperbaric chamber, they're red light, all the brain devices. But yeah, what are your - what's your philosophy on biohacking?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:26:51
Well, okay, I'm in touch, in contact with a lot of young people here because the farm and when we sell up country, there's a lot of, the young hippies or both, and I just get this stance in young people today that they don't have a mission. When I, when my husband and I were young, we travel to Europe, you take your year off, and you travel, kids aren't doing that anymore. We've got so many distractions, my husband called that we have like foreign five bodies, we've got our TV body our computer body, our spiritual body, our physical body, and we're trying to manipulate all of them. We're, we're meditating the morning and smoking dope at night. And racing - we're just trying to do it all. Because there's something about tribal society, you go out and do your vision quest. We don't have a vision quest for young people anymore. And I think there's a segment of society where young people are very involved with this body biohacking as their vision quest. And it's - okay, so there's that part of what I'm thinking, the other part is, when I look at all the machinery and everything, I remember years ago, saying, Well, boys with toys, it's like, we've got that, instead of in the tool, shed, you've got these toys, lined up, I have them too, my massage units, my rollers, my, this, my that, I was on one of the Viber boards until it threw my neck out, and I gave it away. We're able to do it all, and we're doing it all, but I guess my message would be, as you've been hearing is, I've been through the roller coaster of all this. I knew these guys when they started. I know the terrain and I think I've got some answers for people. But I think a lot of people are distracted. I know a lot of practitioners when they hear about my approach, give the body the building blocks and go from there. If we're dealing with their office managers, their office managers will say, Well, we can't make enough money because if we just sell 12 products, where's our overhead gonna come from? Because a lot of these offices, I remember one of them, one doctor friend in New York said her overhead was 80%. So a lot of doctors are making, making their income from selling supplement. Selling supplements is a huge industry and it's gotten beyond just trying to give people something that won't make them well. I kind of got into supplement in a bigger way, because I had to with my figuring out my own ReMag but also, I mean back in, 2008 or so I was writing an online wellness program, I have 108 modules, and I was telling people, everything they needed to do to stay healthy. The words were all there, it was totally awesome. And then in 2008, when the crash came, people said, I just don't have time to read it anymore, right? Tell me what to take. So and I was doing probably by that time, I was doing telephone consulting, and I would tell them what to take and then I started questioning, well, what's good, what's not good. And it wasn't until 2012, 14 that I started having my own products, then by then I had enough information from, okay, they're trying to reduce the milligram potency of supplements, so stay low, stay food based, get some absorption going my own, laxative effect for magnesium was a bonus because I found a non laxative magnesium, which can change somebody's world. You get people who are on like, 20 medications, and most of them are for magnesium deficiency. And yet, I can't talk about that. This program will probably be banned.

Matthew Blackburn  1:31:39
I think I've said enough buzzwords the last 200 shows, methylene blue was really the one that got me on social media. I'm still called Shadow banned and so where I should have so many more 1000s I don't care, but it's weird. I mean, that's the super synthetic, I mean, they bashed and the media says fish tank cleaner and it's one of those things that helps COVID I mean, dramatically, so it's so interesting.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:32:07
Well, it's speaking of COVID If you don't mind going there. The whole thing about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, is that they are ionophores, where they open up cell mineral channel. That's their job. And what do they open them up to? Zinc. So if you've got zinc on board, then you're going to get helped when you do hydroxy, or ivermectin, they don't do the job on their own. But if someone doesn't have zinc, because the protocols called for ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and zinc. So what I did with the pico zinc, which has 10 parts zinc and one part copper for that balance, so the PICO zinc is a stabilized ion, zinc that goes right into the cell, it doesn't need an ion for.

Matthew Blackburn  1:33:11
Wow, that's really cool. Yeah, the zinc things amazing, because it's like, what 300 enzymes and require testosterone? And was it neurotransmitters like depression and anxiety could have a zinc deficiency connection, right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:33:29
Right. Yeah, I often said that magnesium has the most enzyme processes that it supports and zinc is number two. And copper, I think is 50. But, copper, they're all awesome. I mean, you take away any one of these minerals, and you're down. So it's not about saying, well, any one mineral is is the king, they all work together. We just have to get that across to people. And the whole iodine fad, people doing 50 milligrams of iodine. I mean, that was horrific, that caused so many problems in certain people. It started as a cancer treatment and then everybody picked it up. And and I don't know, when you look at the the RDA of iodine being like 150 micrograms, and people are taking 50  milligrams. That's horrendous and what I said about the thyroid hormones, you're causing a real imbalance in your mineral chain when you're using too much of one thing, except for magnesium.

Matthew Blackburn  1:34:47
That's a good point. Yeah, a lot of the iodine supplements I see like the pills, it's like one capsules, 12.5 milligrams, which seems reasonable where you're getting up to 50 or 100. According to my genetics have higher iodine needs so it's, that's interesting. But let's see, what's the next - hair analysis this is so like HTMA, this is actually a really heated argument. I'm gonna interview one of my friends next month on it, because he's seen real results working with clients with mineral balancing, especially in the context of like, what minerals detoxify what heavy metals and seeing it shift in the direction that he expected based on testing before and after. So, I know some people say they're useless and there's probably some people that say it's the most important, where the truth is maybe in between?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:35:46
Well, I studied HTMA In my naturopathic training, and there were so many caveats. And when I went in, I didn't, I didn't take to it, I just thought there's too many kind of twitches that in autism, a child may have high mercury in the hair, or low mercury in the hair, and B, Mercury toxic. It's like so we - how do you know that? And when I had my HTMA done just a few years ago, this person said, "Oh, your magnesium is so high" and "Oh, it's thrown off all your other ratios." "Oh, I don't know what to say about this, I'll get back to you and he never did." So if seriously, if you, you're saturated magnesium, that throws off their charts, people are using HTMA averages or ratios, you have to be in between this and that. They're using them on a sick population. They don't know what a healthy population is and, and therefore, it's like I was saying with blood test, the blood tests are testing sick people. So the ratios are all about sick people. How do you know? And I think the people who were HTMA analysis works, they probably have an intuitive psychic component going, where they just say, "Oh, yeah, this means - okay, I got this." It's not something that I think you can train someone to do, unless they have, like I said, some sort of psychic input to think. I mean, I saw that in New York actually - just came to me, there was this doctor who used to send our, our HIV patients to for their stool analysis, and he would look at fresh stool analysis to find the parasites. And he was like a parasite whisperer, he would find parasites, whereas, "Well, nobody else ever said I had parasites, what's that all about?" It's like, you get at what I'm saying? And all for all those reasons, I get away from doing a lot of testing. And I would just say, well, let's just keep you healthy and, and certainly with the the ReMag and all the other minerals and products I use, that gives people that, that support so that their body can take over even in detoxification,  I think we mentioned how someone's going to walk into a naturopath, oh, yeah, you've got to detox and, and totally flip them out. If you detox the liver, first, you start dumping all the, the viruses that are harbored in the liver, and can really cause someone to, to feel very ill. So, what I see happening with our customers, they may start on ReMag, and then they'll take more and more and after a few months, or they're feeling good, and then the detox kicks in, and they start saying, oh my gosh, I've got a coated tongue. I feel I've got yeast symptoms, if they know what yeast is, or, they just tell us they've got a rash and we say, oh, yeah, you're you're just dumping your yeast now, here, take some pico silver and Flora Revive, you're ready for it. So it's, to me, yeah, as I said at the beginning, I've been at this for over 50 years and just created kind of a nice, gradual approach to helping people just raise themselves up and, I thought I would be doing this one on one with people until I died. But with the company and I've written 22 ebooks and, and I've got 12 customer service people, they're all on the product. So they just guide people, "Oh, take this.", "Well, I still don't sleep well.", "How much ReMag are you taking?", "Well, I cut back." So it's, "Okay, take more"

Matthew Blackburn  1:40:30
I was gonna say, do you think people are deficient in everything because that's something I've been kind of meditating on everything meaning, B vitamins, we have magnesium, zinc, copper, potassium, like kind of going back to HTMA. Because some people will think it's like a matter of just balancing out things that are low. My hypotheticals like, are most people low and almost everything. That's to say, like when you start giving them, the 4000 milligrams of potassium and enough magnesium, that will start to just balance them out overall, or at least start the process.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:41:08
It starts the process but yeah, you're right. I think that's the way I've been operating is as if you're low in everything, take low dose of everything, and you'll slowly get better rather than, "Oh, my gosh, I think I'm low in this, I'm gonna take a whole bunch of it." And then you throw everything else out - off balance. And, yeah, that sounds exactly like how I've been approaching my health and with the customers as well. We really can't - we don't know more than the body. I mean, intellectually, if we say, well, you may have heard people say something like, well, "Oh, your your thyroid is off and your adrenals are off, we gotta treat your adrenals first, before we go to your thyroid." No! Treat them both at the same time, for Pete's sakes, how can you separate them then, they don't separate themselves. They, when the adrenals start crashing, they'll pull on the thyroid and thyroid will eventually crash or, or the thyroid, with chlorine being blocking the receptors or yeast toxins blocking the receptors, your thyroid is gone, or you've had more than one baby and your thyroid is tanking. So to me, it means most people are low, have a weakened thyroid and they just need the minerals to support their thyroid hormone production.

Matthew Blackburn  1:42:40
Yeah, it's interesting, you bring up chlorine, because I was raised - my backyard, my parents set up those, that above ground pool with a little chlorine floating duck. And it was I'd always smell it on my skin and then when I got into my teens, I would sneak into hotel jacuzzis, my friends and pools and just, get - and then showered in tap water the first 20 years of my life and looking back, like I was looking at what chlorine depletes and iodine and ascorbic acid kept coming up for me. I was like, wow, I probably wasn't getting much of that too, my entire life.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:43:20
Right. Yeah, it's, I know that, there was a time when I just like, seriously, I wrote a book called "Death By Modern Medicine." I don't know if you've come across that. So, "Death By Modern Medicine" 6 - 700 pages of just all the horrors in the world. I said that I wrote it on a bad day, all my other books are very positive. So I know what's out there. I know how bad it is. But myself, I feel better now in my 70s than I did in my 30s because I was blessed enough to be told to write this book on magnesium, basically. So I found out my Achilles heel my major weakness and in terms of the genetic testing, you brought that up, and I forgot to comment that I don't really, I tend not to recommend those to people at the outset and hardly ever, anyway, well, first of all, because your genetic information is stolen. For one thing the Chinese have it now, sorry. And secondly, I don't want to know my top 100 gene mutations that maybe I can't do anything about in my mind, and it freaks people out, which actually brings me to maybe our last topic, but I'm happy to keep going. Do you know about total biology in German new medicine.

Matthew Blackburn  1:45:02
Some friends have asked me to look into it and I'm just so busy here with my goats and chickens and stuff. I haven't had time to read into it.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:45:13
Okay, let me give you a quick overview. So German new medicine is, it was founded, created by a German doctor, Geerd Hamer. Hamer's son was shot fatally wounded by some European nobility so he couldn't do anything about it. He was at his son's bedside for three months while he was dying. As a doctor, he couldn't help him. Three months after his son died, he developed testicular cancer, and his wife developed ovarian cancer as the mind way of getting the body to create a new offspring. So that's, that was his introduction to, oh my gosh, what's going on here. He's, he was - he's since passed, he was an oncologist, a cancer doctor and a psychiatrist. He went to all his cancer patient files, and found that every one of his cancer patients had had an irresolvable conflict before they were diagnosed. So he began,  studying knowledge and whatever and studying all his files, and then looking at what he could find that their brain scans and MRIs and a non contrast MRI of their brains, he realized by, looking through probably 1000s of them, that the cancer location matched up with the area in the brain of a circle of kind of disfigurement that would disappear when the conflict was resolved. It sounds like voodoo, but it's actually very scientific and pretty awesome. Because if cancer is a conflict, we can deal with conflict. What my conflict was, I was moving to Maui and I was afraid of getting in the ocean. I had water fear. I was downed a couple of times, I'm a quadruple Pisces, so I love the water. And I had been studying German new medicine through the French version called Total Biology. So my teachers said to the class phone up your relatives and find out the conflicts in the ancestors. So, okay, I have a water fear. I found out from my aunt in Scotland, that I had three relatives, male relatives in their 20s who drowned in a dory, they call them dories. Going across the bay during a big storm, to try to get a doctor to come to across the bay to a home birth. Wow. So that's a story. How did I try to resolve that? In my 20s, the same age as these guys, I went into med school. How did I resolve the swimming stuff? I said to myself, consciously, look at you, you're going to be a doctor and you're afraid of water, you can't even swim properly. So I went into the nurses residence pool and put my face in took it out, put my face in, took it out, taught myself to swim. And then I guess the third thing is, I consciously decided, my husband and I, we didn't want to have kids. So I would never be forced to have a home birth or be at home birth. And I would be a doctor and I put people in hospital for a home birth. Because I did alternative medicine. The first thing that I got was people wanting me to do home births and I said no. So when I found out the words, whatever. So 20s, I'm in my 60s, or 40 years later, I found out about these ancestors I said, Man, I picked up a fear of water, fear of drowning fear of homebirths, fear blah, blah, in my biology, I can drop that and I seriously dropped it. I'm out there swimming over reef sharks, just looking around, and, I'll be, I'll be flipping around by my husband he does laps, so I'll be flipping around. One day a guy came over as I was off somewhere else and he, "Oh is that your son?" Me, your son. So anyway, Total Biology, you can hold a fear, ancestrally maybe those words were spoken when I was a child, did you hear about the drownings, 50 years ago, who knows how I heard about it, maybe it's in our gene pattern, you hear about Louise Hay, her correspondences. And we call Total Biology in German new medicine, Louise Hay on steroids. It's just so awesome. Someone who, who has a pain in their neck, and you say to them, well, who's bothering you, who's the pain in your neck in your life. And, I can't swallow that, so you've got gut problems, or he's a pain in the ass. So you have some sort of colon problem, it is that direct, where it's almost the, the primitive brain that is trying to solve a conflict, by putting the problem in the body, either to call attention to it, or because they - a breast cancer, I mean, this is incredible, a mother, her child will have an accident, she'll be in intensive care, and the mother develops extra milk duct tissue to create more milk to nurture the child, even if she's way past that. So the conflict is trying to find a solution. And if if a woman in that case, if the conflict is resolved, and there's this growth that starts to break down. And that's when it can become symptomatic, and you go to the doctor, "Oh, there's a lump, you've got cancer, you're going to die." And if a woman can get a Total Biology, in the middle of that, find the conflict resolve it, the breast tumor does disappear. And this is stuff that is very much blocked or whatever, there's a huge bias against it. Because it will, it takes away all the allopathic approach to, and it's not just cancer, it's colds and fluids in every part of the body can be affected. But it totally - just one last thing, it totally took away my fear of cancer. That's what I can say,

Matthew Blackburn  1:53:05
Wow, did they ever use Dream Therapy or talked about different ways to do it here? Because I know, like psychedelic therapy is popular now. But when I was like 12, or 13, my brother introduced me to a lucid dreaming online forum. I started like, on my old PC, a text file and started logging, got my dream recall up and then got my lucid dreaming up. And just being more aware of like recurring dreams, like I often had one that my house got bombed, kind of like dressed in style. And it was just very traumatic. And I mean, it was just a recurring dream over and over and over getting bombed on my house. And just kind of, I wonder if that's a peek into our ancestry to kind of see recurring dreams, and that can be kind of a window or a pathway, through?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:53:59
Oh, yeah. Oh, sure. Any any of that, if you want to get an answer to something, you program yourself as you go into bed, let me solve this, let me do this. I mean, people say, and I say the only reason I've been able to do so much right, that dozens and dozens of books and do this is because I'm solving issues, in another world in my so called dream time we live in other worlds, this is not all there is. That's for sure. But yeah, any of that. I mean, if we just say to ourselves, give me the answer, I can handle the answer because that's part of the problem. If you're going to be fearful when you wake up in that lucid dream. Then that just snaps you back. But yeah, it's all there. It's so useful. But I like it when we do it for ourselves. I don't want to be, I learned hypnosis at one point and I thought, No, I don't want to be in someone else's brain or vice versa. So there are things that, that I'd rather do on my own. I mean, look what Jesus said, this miracle you can do and much more, and I thought, okay, I'm in.

Matthew Blackburn  1:55:19
That's awesome. Yeah, it's so fascinating. And yeah, and then you just add the magnesium, ReMag and then now you're really rockin.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:55:30
No question, no question.

Matthew Blackburn  1:55:33
That's awesome. Well, let's see, we're starting to get near the end here. I wanted to ask you - like we hit most of the topics. I think we didn't cover some few of them but maybe they could have you back on but enemas I wanted to ask. So I heard this theory like that enemas deplete magnesium and depletes your minerals. Did you ever get into like - I got a, I think I got one colonic and then I went really heavy into coffee enemas there for a while and I was taking turpentine at the same time.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:56:09
I had done coffee enemas so much I became addicted to coffee. So I'd wake up in the morning and withdrawal and have to have a coffee enema. I mean, that's how bad it was. I think that's my most extreme experiment. I think coffee enemas are great because I take all my minerals, I don't worry about losing minerals in an enema. What I worry about is the the probiotics. So I make sure after I do a coffee enema, and I still do like one, one a week at least. I make sure I put in a probiotic, as a little implant at the end. So that keeps my minerals going and I make sure I'm eating some sauerkraut every day or every two days. A good, good sauerkraut with someone who makes it with several organisms, that's your best bet for probiotics.

Matthew Blackburn  1:57:13
Yeah, it's a good idea to put it in the enema too. It's, it's wild, there's these groups where they're all posting their worms that came out of them. And, I took copper and did one, and this came out of me. It's fascinating. I mean, the whole parasite topic, I'm gonna do my first like GI stool MAP test in the next few weeks. And it's funny, some people say it's inaccurate, or this one's better. Everyone has an opinion with the testing, right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:57:44
Well, I mean, I really did learn it when we were doing the HIV treatments in New York, it was a. what do you call it? A clinical trial. I've learned that you have to have a fresh stool sample, or it doesn't show, to fix it have to put the stool in, it will shrink up eggs and parasites so they can't be seen. So until - I think until we get the blood organism antibody tests perfected, we won't know. And I don't know if we can get there because there's so many 1000s and 1000s of organisms. How do you how do you identify? And again, I mean, I used to think oh yeah, deworm everybody a couple times a year. And now I say Oh, I'm deworming because I'm doing my pico silver every day and my Flora Revive. I'm good.

Matthew Blackburn  1:58:45
Yeah, I do cigars. Not every day though.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:58:52
The whole tobacco thing I really love that I belong to a circle in New York, and we would pass the tobacco and do ceremony. I mean, tobacco is a ceremonial herb, for Pete's sakes.

Matthew Blackburn  1:59:10
Yeah, I love going out in my lake. I have a little rowboat and it's just very relaxing and go out there and look at the bats flying around. And do you want to do some rapid fire questions here, Carolyn, at the end?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  1:59:27

Matthew Blackburn  1:59:28
These are listener questions they sent in. We covered probably half of them just in our conversation. This is a really common one and I see it in my little community circle whatever. Thoughts on getting sodium and potassium levels up before starting magnesium, because there's a meme out there that you want to take sodium and potassium for six months, minimum, before you start a magnesium otherwise it's a waste or whatever.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:00:01
Well that's interesting and good to bring that up because I usually mentioned this at some point in an interview. I, I tell people before you start any of my formulas to start drinking, sea salted water, boom, but you don't have to do it for six months. That's ridiculous. So what it is, is, hydration is so important because we need our minerals in the cells to make the the mitochondria work and I love the name of your Mitochondria Mito is so awesome. I love mitochondria because a lot of the steps in the Krebs cycle require magnesium. [Call Audio noise] Uh oh, the aliens just came in, I heard aliens.

Matthew Blackburn  2:00:54
That might have been the bucket unless we had interference of an ET tuning in.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:01:01
So hydration is 1,000% important. And my hydration formula is you take your body weight in pounds, divide that in half, and drink that many ounces of some sort of purified water. And in every liter of that water, you put a quarter teaspoon of a good sea salt that has some color to it. If you're using a white sea salt, it's been processed and it's lost its minerals. So you have to be drinking that water. And part of what my liquid minerals, why I think they're important. It's because you dilute them in water, and it causes you to drink enough water. People aren't drinking enough water. So I totally agree with the sodium chloride in water. What did you say, was it sodium and potassium before magnesium?

Matthew Blackburn  2:02:01
Yeah, just to be able to retain it or utilize it. Because you were talking about the potassium magnesium connection. My question is, can't you just do them all at once? Like why would it be different?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:02:13
Yeah, you would do them all at once. And what I found with the, our magnesium and the sea salt water people did exceptionally well, it was only a smaller percentage that maybe they weren't doing their bone broth or, or their potassium vegetables. And that's where I felt I had to go to a potassium supplement. But they all go together so why would you separate them? You know, heaven forbid.

Matthew Blackburn  2:02:43
Yeah, so this is this is a hot topic and it was my last show with Caitlyn Hartigan of the iron protocol. And one of the things that changed my mind on this year was iron deficiency. She's an expert on it, she's polled people on Facebook groups and heard feedback and someone was just curious, your thoughts on iron in general? Because basically, there's some people that say iron deficiency does not exist, period. Everyone's overloaded. I think it's and then there's people that are iron deficient, said, nobody's overloaded. I've heard that too. It's always like the truth is in the middle, right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:03:21
Absolutely. But the extremes, get the hits, people talk extremes so that they can get the hits and the clicks. Well, I never went to iron supplementation, because women don't need it, in perhaps until menopause. And even then, early on, in my practice, I had a person who had the iron overload syndrome. He was siderosis and, and that was an eye opener to me. So I've always been aware of it, and stayed away from supplementing iron. And then when I look at iron deficiency and absorption and all that, I think, Okay, well, you're taking in terms of what I recommend, you're taking your whole C, vitamin C, so that's helping iron absorption from your food, you're taking copper in your ReMag so that's also helping your iron absorption. So I think, in my world, people are keeping up with their iron, with my customers, I never hear anyone except that pregnant woman say, "Well, I think I have iron deficiency anemia." And then there's liquid iron so they can take. So I - but I certainly have heard people say, Yeah, I took high dose iron or someone lecturing about high dose iron. It really helped. Seriously, anything you take will help, the placebo effect will make that happens. And then, what the body will do is kind of tried to negotiate this salve and in the negotiation of this salve, you will feel different. And you can think, "Oh, I'm feeling better." See what I mean and to me, it's the same as the cold shock therapy and heat shock therapy. You know the therapy, I forget his name.

Matthew Blackburn  2:05:29
 Oh, Wil Hof.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:05:32
Hof, yeah! You know, getting people in the cold and then oh my gosh, all the parameters look, the blood test, they look so much better and everything, the body's thinking you're killing it, for Pete's sakes, it thinks that you're dying, it goes into shock and puts out adrenaline, puts out human growth hormone, it will do all of these things to save your life. And how many times are you going to do that and then overuse and deplete all those nutrients that are needed to create these elevations. The adrenaline and everything, that's where your magnesium goes, when you're in fight or flight constantly with stress and everything. There's where your magnesium goes, to create the adrenaline so I do not believe in these shock things. I've had too many people who've come with the side effects from them, they hear the good bits, but maybe not so much the bits that. The bad bits of too much sauna therapy as you sweat out all your minerals, if you're not replacing minerals that are properly and easily absorbed, you're just taking mineral compounds. You're checking the list. Oh, yeah, check, okay, I took them all, but if you're not absorbing them it's not gonna help.

Matthew Blackburn  2:06:55
That's a good point. Yeah, I definitely have gotten some highs from - I was doing the ice bath like six years ago. And I think they do it right in Russia where it's a plunge. It's not a mind over matter, stand there for 20 minutes. You get in and you get out. That's how it's traditionally done not a machismo 15 minute. But yeah, interesting your thoughts on iron. I mean, my experience was, I was convinced that I had iron overload because I was convinced that everyone did. And I did this calculation that someone told me 365 times my age. And that's how many milligrams of iron I have my body based on one milligram per day. So supposedly, I was supposed to have 12,500 milligrams in my body. So I just started donating blood every two months, and I only did two. And the first one, I felt Superman and then the second one, it almost killed me. I felt horrible and I hadn't recovered from the fatigue since. And so I got my iron panel done. My ferritin was low under 100, which is low, my saturations 12%, which is very low, that's definitely a deficiency, and my serum iron was low, which doesn't say much, but the saturation being low. That is everything. And so yeah, there's those contexts to where it's like, you donate too much blood, because someone told you it's really important, that could be harmful too. That could cause the iron problem. So yeah, definitely not placebo for me, the fatigue was real  from donating.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:08:33
Like I said, Wild Wild West, you're doing the experiment.

Matthew Blackburn  2:08:40
Yeah, it's not like I can't I mean, I'm a resilient guys. It's more fun for me like, oh, not feeling good for a month or two. Let's have fun. Getting back to balance.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:08:50
What's interesting, okay, let me just say this Matt, I mean, you're a young guy, and all the rest of it, there are forums out there that are tracking very sick people. And they will be told to do this, that or the other, and it can be overwhelming for them, the information and if they do it, they can get in trouble. And it's like, I think I said something like this on an iodine forum once and it was almost like, well, you win some you lose some and that attitude, it just floored me. And I said to myself, Okay, these are just people who haven't taken down the Hippocratic Oath thing. I mean, I did cross my fingers behind my back when I said it anyway, but at the same time, it's like first do no harm, and I don't want to hurt one person. So you can't take the attitude of, well, some people will be helped - some people they won't be helped. And I don't know how to rein that in because people will seek out these forums and look for someone to tell them what to do. And then they can suffer the consequences, buyer beware.

Matthew Blackburn  2:10:09
That's a really good point. If you're just looking to optimize your health and you're not - you don't have a serious chronic illness then maybe there's more room and play for experimentation. But yeah, a lot of people are really unwell and do have a serious chronic ailment where they have to be a little more careful. This is a good one, "Is magnesium citrate really that bad?" We had a few people ask that.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:10:35
Oh, right. I heard about that attack on magnesium citrate and I don't know - I mean, I couldn't find a study that talked about it. I personally had Dr. Andrea Rosanoff, she's a magnesium expert and she consulted for a company that use magnesium citrate for decades that was Natural Calm. Actually I spoke at conferences where, with Natural Calm and did some consulting with them myself. I never in the 20 years that I knew about Natural Calm, did I ever hear anyone having a problem with magnesium citrate. So I don't know where that that could possibly come from and is it the - are they equating citrate with citric acid and the whole vitamin C thing is not good? To me, it didn't make any sense and that's all I can say. It makes no sense.

Matthew Blackburn  2:11:42
I didn't even hear about the attack -- sorry, I had to swat a fly. Bugs getting into the cabin.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:11:52
Uh oh!

Matthew Blackburn  2:11:56
Didn't want it to get away. I didn't hear about that attack on citrate. That's interesting. Yeah, some people demonize the citrate compounds and say it's harmful in of itself. And I've taken zinc citrate, and I feel awesome from it. So I don't know what that's about.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:12:11
I think citrate - I think that was the compound used in zinc lozenges. Pretty sure.

Matthew Blackburn  2:12:20
I think all the zinc gummies would use it, which they taste good.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:12:27
Seriously, there's so many - you can hear negative about anything. That's why I have so many customer service people because people find out. What about this? What about that? And it used to be you see something in print, you see something on the internet and you think it's it's real, but not necessarily.

Matthew Blackburn  2:12:50
Yeah, a lot of fear. So kind of circling back, we had a bunch of people asking, because I said I was interviewing you about yeast overgrowth, too, and you mentioned that your Flora product, but someone asked is yeast overgrowth connected to heavy metals, and how to get rid of it. And maybe the Candida connection, kind of all that.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:13:15
Right. I guess the connection with yeast is that mercury can act like an antibiotic and kill off good bacteria and therefore it can be associated with yeast, that's what comes to mind. The thing with these toxins, there's about 78 of them. And when you have a leaky gut, they can be absorbed through the intestines and get into the bloodstream. And they can cause a lot of havoc. I mean, that can be the brain fog and you can have yeast growing in the sinuses. So you can have plugged sinuses, plugged ear ducts, coated tongue, you can have post nasal drip from the sinuses. I mean, the symptoms are just hit the book. And, and it occurs then you get yeast overgrowth, yeast are supposed to stay in your large intestine. When you take an antibiotic or birth control pill, the antibiotic kills off good and bad bacteria and then the yeast are bouncing around, Hey, we got room to grow and they grow up into your small intestine. And then all the things that cause leaky gut can then lead to the toxins being absorbed. I don't - I don't like to say that the yeast organisms are absorbed. Some people doing the DarkField Microscopy will say that they'll see yeast in the blood, I'm sure that can happen but the yeast overgrowth I'm talking about it's intestinal yeast or yeast that will be in all the mucous membranes. So, head, neck, vaginal, anal, you can pass yeast in sexual transmission. So I think it's, it's just something that's really with us. As I said earlier, the diet, the stress, everything is sort of focuses toward yeast overgrowth.

Matthew Blackburn  2:15:18
Can apple cider vinegar and make it worse? Someone asked, for yeast overgrowth.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:15:26
I was never good with apple cider vinegar. It was too acidic for me so I haven't personally tested it. But something tells me that people talk about it as a kind of an antifungal. So I don't know that's where you can kamikaze tested on yourself.

Matthew Blackburn  2:15:45
Yeah, I was raw vegan, hardcore for about four years and my dinner every night was a whole head of lettuce and I would always use olive oil and apple cider vinegar as my dressing. And that seemed to do pretty well for me, felt good and-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:16:04
Well, you know, they talk about taking a few tablespoons before meal to help your stomach acidity. I think that works for a lot of people. I think that's helpful - can be helpful.

Matthew Blackburn  2:16:17
Yeah. Let's see maybe one or two more here, is there a specific time to take magnesium? Or are there things we shouldn't take with it?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:16:30
I look at it as a food. So just take it as you would eat a food anytime during the day, this whole business about taking calcium separate from this or that separate from that. That's not how plants do it. In a plant, you'll have all the minerals. So you get them all together. So the body's used to that. But magnesium because it's needed in the cells, but it can run out of the body, urine and bowel, kind of easily I get people, I've been drinking out of my cup all morning here, I get people to put their amount of minerals in their sea salted water, and try to drink it through the day everyone's walking around now with the water bottle so that's easy enough. And by doing that through the day, then you're putting little aliquots of water and minerals in your body. You're not overloading your cells so you're getting it - you're getting it spaced out. People say, I'm gonna take it all at once then you can give yourself the laxative effect because you've overloaded your cells and the body now goes, okay, I'm full. So throughout the day.

Matthew Blackburn  2:17:48
That's awesome. Yeah, when I went to college, I would carry around a glass growler and I had this routine where I would put it in the refrigerator, cool the water, I would ozonate it for 30 minutes, and then it would hold the ozone in the water all day from morning until late evening, at he end of my day, I was shocked like I would still taste the ozone at like eight o'clock.  Wow, that's awesome. Very good. Until the campus police pulled me over and thought I was drinking alcohol on campus.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:18:21
When Bob and I traveled, we traveled with a little water jug and, and we had something called the Decel in it, it was a little cement block that was a water purifier. And actually it's now evolved into a 400 pound cement block for purifying water. But at the time, we'd be drinking it and we were pretty bubbly and happy people and we - I don't know if we told them we had drugs in it or acid or whatever, we might have just said oh to Decel, it purifies the water and they take a drink and think they got high from it. Just be - seriously the placebo effect, the positive effect of just what you say is, is as powerful as the negative effect. And the fear, fear based stuff that's going on these days, we really have to stay away from it. Or the the anger. Here's something that I wanted to share. I hate that word. This is something I wanted to say. If I'm angry at someone else, it's like me taking poison and expecting the other guy to die. So you just can't - you cannot keep anger going and that's part of the German new medicine Total Biology message as well. If you've got a conflict in your brain, get it out, talk it out, write it out, just dump it because it's just festering in your brain.

Matthew Blackburn  2:20:06
Wow, I love that. Yeah and that's so timely with social media and the internet because I have to take breaks. Usually every five weeks or so, I'll just take a week off of looking at my messages and stuff like that, and everyone just wants to battle and debate and be right and prove you wrong and it's just exhausting. And I think it's just that part of human psychology that wants to suck energy from other people. But that - wanting to do that probably comes from mineral disregulation, right and like, not being fulfilled and not-

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:20:51
Well, people tell me the gramaphone thoughts and the worries and the, oh my, and the paranoia, "Oh, I'm gonna die." They say that that will go away when they're saturate - well, when they take magnesium, especially my ReMag, I've had people say, I took one dose and my mind just calmed down. I mean, that's crazy. And so the body is looking for that solution, and it will use it. That's what's so amazing about about supplements that work, because you do feel them right away. You will. I mean, there are people though, who are very toxic, and they have to go drip by drip. And that's where they need sort of the the support, you know?

Matthew Blackburn  2:21:39
Yeah, I bought my own like, sensory deprivation float tank a couple years ago, which is a challenge to have off grid. So I have to like, basically turn it on before I'm going to use it. Because a lot of the heaters are a lot of juice. But yeah, speaking of finding conflict, I mean, I've had like memories surface, just from being there in silence. 1200 pounds of magnesium. It's like, almost shakes. And it's like, oh, a little flash of a memory that I forgot. There's so many therapies out there that you can find, but that one's pretty cool because it's combining with the museum's

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:22:19
Mmhmm. Oh, absolutely. But someone to talk to, to. It's hard to, to do it all in, in your own head. I mean, diaries help and all the rest of it, but it is good to have someone to talk with.

Matthew Blackburn  2:22:36
Yeah, yeah. I'm fortunate to have a really good relationship with an awesome lady and that's hard to find nowadays. And yeah, that aspect to it, if it's not a community, if it's at least one person in a healthy relationship, not always arguing, both have enough magnesium. But, awesome. Well, this was a lot of fun, Carolyn, really appreciate you coming on and I look at you as the original magnesium person. I mean, like you said, you started in the 70s, right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:23:17
Yeah, it's been a while and thank goodness, I got into what I did, because it helped my health, I think, well, we're all kind of we're - if you're driven, I always thought I had the great work, ahead of me, and I've gotten there, as far as I'm concerned. So I'm very happy for that and I would just encourage people to be - keep the motivation going keep - never stop. I mean, once you stop, you sit down and I'm, I'm happy. I'm happy with my food stamps or I'm happy not to work. This seriously, that is just the road to perdition. It's just not going to be useful in the future for either the person or the planet. We all have to keep active.

Matthew Blackburn  2:24:11
I love that. Yeah, I just turned 35 a few days ago and sometimes people chronologically older than me, will say, well just wait till you retire. You won't be doing this forever. And it's like, yeah, I want to be doing this forever. Yeah, just like, "Wont you get tired after a while with just not to stop stuff?" But it's if you're doing what you love, right, like what you're doing. You don't tired and you just want to keep doing it.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:24:40
Yeah. And I'm very fortunate I ended up in paradise and still - and able to do more because then I found the farm and  to be able to help the farm stay active and expand. I mean, it's - it's just awesome. I've taken your word, you use awesome a lot. I think it's a great word.

Matthew Blackburn  2:25:07
Probably overuse it but yeah, I'm jealous of the fruit that you have over there. I mean, I'm going to do subtropical here, which I can do and I'm trenching a five foot perimeter around the dome and then we're putting - I just got ICF blocks the big foam blocks delivered last week, like 400 plus of them so that's its own insulation. It's like a pond inside, koi pond I'm going to do which has a little heat feature in it. Maintain the heat so it should be fun to see what I could do with avocados and citrus which I think will fine up here but over there you have like papayas and mangoes, everything right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:25:47
Oh, it's like a candy store. So with the pond then you'll have your humidity, you'll have the the warmth from the pond but and what kind of heat will you use in it?

Matthew Blackburn  2:26:00
Just the Earth's heat, so this is a - it's a company out of Colorado Growing Spaces. They've been around, I think, like 20 or 30 years. And there's different kits out there you can buy for the domes. This is just one of the ones I vetted and they have a YouTube channel, it's pretty cool. But yeah, the basic idea is you - well, depending on your climate, if it's a warm climate, you just plop it right on the ground. But here where I'm at, I'm tapping into the Earth's temperature which is I think five feet down it's like a constant 54 degrees fahrenheit, somewhere around there. But with the blocks, I think it's going to be even warmer. So it's gonna like warm the ground under there and then that's going to kind of retain it. So I'm really curious because it - the winters up here aren't too cold like last winter I think it got down to zero for, or negative two or three degrees fahrenheit for like a week or two. But it's not that bad and I'm really curious to see around February walking into that dome, how warm it's going to be but yeah, I think the pond absorbs heat when it's excess because it gets like in the 90s in the summer here so it absorbs the heat and then it will release the heat, when it cools down but supposedly you don't need a wood stove or any kind of heater in there with all this stuff going and I think the plants generate some type of heat, I believe?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:27:34
Right, that's wonderful. I was gonna say awesome but I switched a wonderful but you could take in a little space heater if you had a bad winter, I'm sure right?

Matthew Blackburn  2:27:49
Yeah, I thought about putting in a woodstove I mean some people think the global warming thing is a scam which I think it probably is but like they think it's opposite

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:27:59
I agree.

Matthew Blackburn  2:27:59
Global cooling, so we're going to an ice age, which I hope not. One of my neighbors up here is like yeah we're in a really interesting climate where if the whole world cooled, up here it'll actually get warmer. I don't know how it works but he described it to me, I guess so.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:28:22
I'm fine here, for yeah, year round it's like 80, so it's pretty awesome.

Matthew Blackburn  2:28:30
There's awesome. Is there the volcano issue, Kilauea? Or up here we have Mount St. Helens that's one of those fears right? That these volcanoes are gonna blow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:28:41
Well, yeah, the volcanoes over on Big Island and they - actually there's some activity all the time. So there's volcanic organic acids, VOG, that comes this way if our trade winds kind of stopped blowing so we have a trade wind that blows over Maui keeps it, cool enough. We never get into hundreds ever. And it blows away the VOG so, again, awesomeness.

Matthew Blackburn  2:29:15
Wow. But I think - I think there are good minerals though, from that ash, right, that you can get?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:29:24
Yeah. But even so, when I started with the farm and tried to go vegetarian once again, I eat only from the farm and my magnesium deficiency kicked right in. So I know you're not getting minerals from from Mount Haleakala here.

Matthew Blackburn  2:29:46
Yeah, yeah, I wonder - I wonder too, I wanted to say this earlier in the show, because I'm sure you're using your brain a lot. I use my brain a lot, just with the unnatural amount of just having the internet, like, the amount of brain power, we need the RAM to navigate through modern life. I think a theory is that we're just using our nutrient requirements are just higher. Because we're using our brain more than our ancestors did.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:30:19
I would think so because they've done studies showing that when your brain is active, you're, you're burning more glucose. It uses more, per weight than the rest of the body. So, yeah, I think that's highly accurate because when you're burning glucose, you're using all the cofactors to create the energy and all the rest of it. So obviously, that's all the mineral then the B vitamins, of course.

Matthew Blackburn  2:30:44
Yeah, fascinating. Well, this is this was so much fun and I'll put the link to your your website, you have a lot of cool stuff we didn't talk about. Face creams and what else? There's your balm ReMag balm and that's cool. Yeah, you have all the minerals in liquid form the Flora Revive sounds pretty cool. I've been playing around with the boulardii, I befriended a doctor recently up here and fairly smart guy. It's been, friends with the thorn owner and stuff. We were talking for three hours a couple of weeks ago. And he's like, "Yeah, I've helped people heal their gut issues with boulardii in two weeks, just here, take this whole bottle" and he was saying the only downside is diarrhea, I guess if you take too much, right?

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:31:35
Well, yeah, that may be. I mean, if you take too much of anything, but saccharomyces boulardii, it was some, it was used in diarrhea studies with children to treat their diarrhea for Pete's sakes. So it's actually going to do the opposite. But yeah, there - I mean, there will be toxic people who when they start detoxifying, they'll just dump, they will have diarrhea, it's a way for the body get to get rid of stuff.

Matthew Blackburn  2:32:09
Interesting. Yeah, I recently had a few weeks ago, my girlfriend and I actually had the same time just a weird like gut reset. And I plugged in this new scaler device so I don't know if that was beaming us and tossing a detox. But I started taking handfuls of boulardii at it definitely helped. I mean, I was taking 10 capsules several times a day, and I didn't get diarrhea, it felt great so, it helps.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:32:36
You are such a kamikaze, it's amazing. That's fun. It's good.

Matthew Blackburn  2:32:43
Yeah, it's awesome but yeah, RnAReSet, is that your website? Or people could check out your supplements? And

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:32:49
Yes, thank you, rnareset.com. And then I have my educational website has to be different because the alphabet people don't like me saying good things about supplements. So the other website is drcarolyndean.com. And I had to go to a membership site to kind of hide myself a bit cuz I had to take down, like 1000 articles that I had up on the internet because I was saying nice things about supplements. Crazy times.

Matthew Blackburn  2:33:34
Yeah, it is. I know YouTube's heavily censored, I'm surprised I haven't gotten my account deleted from there. But then again, it's I have a friend that has a podcast that's like, I think you've been on Justin Stellman show, Extreme Health Radio. And it like seems like every five to 10 shows they put cancer in the title I'm like, "Wow, you guys are brave."

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:33:55
Right. But only if you're doing good things do you get nailed and then you know, you're on the right track.

Matthew Blackburn  2:34:04
Right, well awesome, Carolyn, this was so much fun. I'll put the links where you guys could check out her website or supplements, her awesome information. And yeah, thanks so much, stick around as we close out the show.

Dr. Carolyn Dean  2:34:20
Okay, thank you so much. It totally fun, totally fun. I can't believe it's been two and a half hours.

Matthew Blackburn  2:34:28
For sure. Thanks, Carolyn. That is all for today's show. I took a lot of notes from what Carolyn said. And it's really cool that she has that saccharomyces boulardii in her product. I've been delving into that therapy and it seems to be beneficial for a lot have different conditions, including H. Pylori, which some studies say 50% of the population has it. As I told Carolyn in the show, I've megadose that S boulardii, handfuls of capsules, and I didn't have any turbulence, it only seemed to benefit me. So it works really well for my body. I thought it was interesting when she said that zinc is number two to magnesium. In order of importance, I've been doing that zinc sulfate test and it's become slightly more metallic with supplementing zinc bisglycinate. But I've been eating steaks really regularly, not a carnivore diet, but a significant amount of top sirloin grass fed steaks for the last three years. And you would think that I would have sufficient zinc. But according to the zinc sulfate test, I was deficient, so I started supplementing it. And I've noticed that that metallic taste is starting to appear when I swish that sulfate around my mouth for 10 seconds. So if you want to check out Dr. Carolyn Dean, you can go to drcarolyndean.com. And her products are at rnareset.com. I just received a few of her products in the mail yesterday, including ReMag, which a lot of people rave about and I'm really excited to try it out. I also got the Pico Potassium, the Flora Revive and I think that Pico Zinc. So she has a lot of cool products and I think that person that popularized magnesium probably knows how to create a good magnesium product. And it's really cool that it doesn't have that flushing effect on the bowels that many other forms do. I remember there was a time a few years ago when I was drinking a lot of magnesium bicarbonate. And the problem with that form is that, especially for certain people, that can have a really strong laxative effect. And so this magnesium chloride form and the special processing that Carolyn did with it, might be something to try, if you tend to get that laxative effect from the magnesium's that you've been taking my website is matt-blackburn.com. And I did temporarily take down the CLF protocol, while I rewrite it, and I will have time to do that, the next few days, finally. It's been a little hectic, just started logging on my property to make room for fruit trees and more walking trails. And since all my new discoveries the last four or five months, I definitely want to update the CLF protocol and integrate the new understandings that our way less fear based, than a lot of other protocols are. If you click on shop, you can see all of the recommended products up there, I actually just ordered a new product from Saturée, the marine collagen, which I'm really excited to try, I've never taken that form. And I actually just put up on the website of vitamin D tests. This is a 25 hydroxy vitamin D test, they send you the Lancet, you prick your finger, you squeeze it and let the drop of blood fall on the little collection paper. You mail that in the same day and then within a few weeks, you get your results back. And they have other cool tests as well. They have omega three index tests, you can test 24 fatty acids, actually, that's what I'm going to do soon. Their coolest test is the B12 status test. I've been really delving into vitamin B12, lately, since my levels were high, but then I had the binding capacity measured and that was low. And I expect this test to show high from what I understand about my symptoms and what I've read in the studies. So basically, you can have adequate B12 or even high B12 but B12 deficiency at the same time. And a lot of this comes down to genetics. I found two genes TCN2, and FUT2. And I have several mutations in both of those, almost 90% in the TCN2 one and that's kind of scary, because that's the gene responsible for making the protein transcobalamin, that transports vitamin B12, from the bloodstream to the cells. So it's the transporter for B12 and if that's not functioning properly, then basically you have to look into lithium therapy, that trace mineral which transports B12, from the bloodstream into the cells. So that's been my new rabbit hole, lately. I love the intricacies and the details and the individuality of all these things, because we can throw out the idea that certain supplements are toxic, or nobody should ever take a certain supplement, because that doesn't apply to a balanced approach when you're looking at genetics, blood work, symptoms, all of that together to form a picture. You can't just blank it say that d3 is toxic, or ascorbic acid is toxic, or zinc is toxic, or lithium orotate is toxic. It just doesn't make sense logically. So, next week, I'm actually interviewing a functional medicine practitioner. And I'm really excited to hear what he has to say about copper overload, and genetics, which he's an expert on, and this whole B12. thing. So stay tuned for more information on that. And that's a really fun rabbit hole that I've been going down in the last few days. My company is called Mito Life, you can find that at mitolife.co. And really exciting things on the way. Panacea just came back in stock, a lot of people have been asking if the Shilajit is back, it is and we have a pretty good supply, so I would head over there and stock up. Because who knows with what's going on internationally, what will happen so it's always good to have several months supply so that you don't run out. So I'll see you guys next week. I'm going to go switch off my backup generator and spend the night with my cats and the fireplace. So I will see you guys next Friday, stay supercharged.