Ashlee Rowland | Mitolife Radio Ep #168

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
eat, body, copper, minerals, people, magnesium, foods, iron, cod liver oil, day, women, good, drink, started, oxalates, morley, supplements, detox, clients, van

Matthew Blackburn 00:18
You are listening to Episode 168 of MITO LIFE Radio. I am Matt Blackburn. And today I'm interviewing Ashley Rowland of simple holistic on her journey of healing from allergies, anemia, infertility, quote, incurable celiac disease, rheumatoid arthritis, which she was diagnosed at 16 that she had Hashimotos and more. So she's had quite the journey. She is really knowledgeable about PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome, which seems to be an epidemic in women today. So in this interview, we talked about all that the adrenal cocktail, cod liver oil, hypothyroidism, iodine supplements, Parasite cleansing, and Ashley answers listener questions, including what does PCOS healing look like? How to rebalance from hormonal acne? Is Springwater good or bad? How to lose weight after pregnancy? How long into her healing journey was she able to tolerate eating gluten, oxalates, matcha, holistic birth control, supplementing progesterone, and much more. So enjoy. Here is Ashlee Rowland. All right, we're here with Ashlee Roland. Welcome to the show.

Ashlee Rowland 01:55
Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me.

Matthew Blackburn 01:57
Yeah, thanks for coming on. You've had quite a journey. We were talking about a little bit before we started recording, of, of healing, a lot of things. One of them's incurable celiac, right? Which the whole gluten subject has been so amplified. I've watched it, you know, with the the carnivore movement, and I mean, really every diet kind of lifestyle. They've really demonized bread and gluten. And I was just telling you like, for breakfast, I, I was eating a slice of sprouted bread every morning and I felt like it balanced my blood sugar better, you know, than not having it. And people were just getting into this restrictive phase of cutting out stuff. And that just digs them into a deeper hole, doesn't it?

Ashlee Rowland 02:50
Absolutely, yeah and it becomes almost like, their identity of gluten free, dairy free, sugar free, oil free, whatever. And we don't have to live like with all the free things and I say in my like to my students and to my clients, if you're like having to be free of all the different foods. There's probably something wrong. Like it's not normal to cut out entire food groups and to only be able to eat 10 foods or you know, but people almost start to live, like with that title of that honor. Because that's just what they have to do. You know, they can't function eating these other things because their digestive system is so shot.

Matthew Blackburn 03:33
Yeah, so what were you like diagnosed with allergies? Because that's what a lot of people say to me. They say, "I'm allergic to this and that and this and that and what do I do?" And I usually point them to copper and the DAO enzyme but I know there's even more stuff going on.

Ashlee Rowland 03:51
Yeah, I was diagnosed with, so diagnosed with celiac and people are like, "How are you diagnosed? Show your medical records?" "Um, no." And then, so I was diagnosed celiac. I was diagnosed with an egg allergy, a shrimp allergy and then like, major lactose, like allergy, so no dairy, butter, anything. I couldn't even eat like a little tiny bit of butter. So yeah, I mean, now my breakfast could be all of those things. It's a piece of sourdough bread with butter and eggs and I mean, like it was it was horrible. So we can heal. And but people are just like, "No, you're slowly killing yourself. You're going to get stomach cancer in the future, because you know, you're just asymptomatic." And it's just like, oh my gosh, what a what a sad mindset to be a slave to that you literally, you can't heal just because the medical literature saying it.

Matthew Blackburn 04:51
Yeah, yeah, I had a show several months ago, where this doctor was talking about low dose immunotherapy, I think was just like a way to get through allergies and I feel like there are so many treatment options that people can do. I think Morley recommends a few for allergies. But those are advanced, right? Like the basic piece would be what in your opinion, like mineral balance and just getting calories back and macronutrients?

Ashlee Rowland 05:23
Yeah, it's, it's quite interesting. You know, like, I always, I always have an extreme case that comes to me, whether it's a client that is already doing all the things, you know, they're they're trying to balance their minerals, they're eating frequently, they're keeping their blood sugar balanced. And those are the fun cases, because it's like, ooh, okay, let's dig in and, you know, are we going to look into gland, like glandulars? Or are we looking at kidney support and whatever, but it always comes down, no matter no matter how severe the case is, it always comes down to a histamine issue. I mean, was everyone like even my most severe clients, with like the most severe cases, even if it doesn't, you know, work immediately and on the long term, they will experience like, major relief when they just take Histaminum, like the homeopathy. So it's telling me oh, your body is like, majorly needing copper and so we work on that DAO enzyme we, you know, we work on getting the copper up, the retinol, and that's what we use the blood test, and HTMA is just kind of checking that out and it's just crazy. Like these people will be like, I used to take is it, I think yes, Zyrtec, like I used to employ Zyrtec basically. And then, you know, we just put them on the Histaminum and their bodies, you know, supporting them somewhat simultaneously with copper and retinol and stuff and, and they just peel. It's the coolest thing ever.

Matthew Blackburn 06:46
Histaminum. That's interesting. Yeah. My mom was kind of my gateway to health because she grew up introduced me to aloe vera and she had all the homeopathic medicines, but that's one that I had never heard of. And that's pretty cool, combining it with retinol and copper coming in. That's really interesting.

Ashlee Rowland 07:04
Yeah. Yeah, like I have a client that has Dermatomyositis so just skin like muscle skin, you know, issues, rash, stuff like that. And she's been, it's like a rare autoimmune disease and she's tried everything like they put her on all sorts of things. And then we got the, the Histaminum in her body. And she's like, "The days I don't take it, the rash comes, the days I do, the rash doesn't come." It's just crazy. Like, it's, it's homeopathy and so all but when that I do it, like kind of, to confirm like, oh, yeah, you have low copper. I mean, like everyone has low copper. But once if you give someone that Histaminum, and they respond well to it, their bodies low and copper, you know, you just know that. Yeah.

Matthew Blackburn 07:50
Yeah. So you said that you went through Morley's root cause protocol practitioner program, because you kind of just opened the door saying everybody's low in copper, because that's a whole Pandora's box that you open there. Because people would say, "What, what do you mean?" And I've had shows on this, you know, I just interviewed a guy that wrote a book on it and write the mantra is your copper toxic and iron deficient. And it's actually the opposite and that's, that's a big part of the education, right? It's just, like, telling people, it's that simple. I mean, especially if they had the upbringing that we did here in America, where it's like cereals, and iron fortified foods and iron in our water. I mean, that just tanks copper and retinol, right?

Ashlee Rowland 08:38
Absolutely. Yeah, the premise of the RCP training is, you know, morally, just gone off copper. And I'm like, "This man loves copper." and then in your guys's latest podcast was funny. I was listening to with my husband. I'm like, "Morley loves copper." And then He literally says, "I am at the altar of copper, like I want it." And people I think what people don't like is they don't like that. Your answer is always copper. Because to them, they want like a they want a diagnosable thing that they can go and google treatment for PCOS foods for PCOS or foods for Hashimotos because it's really easy to Google and it's really easy to get an answer about, but when you tell someone like, "Oh, you're having a histamine issue, and we need to get your retinol up, when you get your copper up, we need to get your iron circulating again" They're like, "What like what do I do?" and people don't like that. So I think that's why people are so attached to their diagnosis is, is because it's easier almost.

Matthew Blackburn 09:43
That's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah, Morley really got me interested in and I have been interested in this for a while but just the the interconnectedness between vitamins, minerals and enzymes. I feel like people that are dealing with a chronic illness especially just have no clue, like the kindergarten level of those relationships, right? Because there's levels to understanding how those three are connected. But just the basic one. Iron causes a copper deficiency and too many PUFAs creates vitamin D deficiency and just the basic stuff. Like it's so important.

Ashlee Rowland 10:22
Yeah, and I think another interesting point is, a lot of people get frustrated because they've, they've done they've spent tons of money and time on all the other things, you know, like, keto, bulletproof, whatever. So they're frustrated, like, "Are you kidding me? I could have done this the whole time?" Like, yeah, but the thing is, and I always tell this to my clients is like, "You did what you could with what you had, and you don't know what you don't know. And so now, you know, and I'm sorry, you spent $10,000 on random, like synthetic supplements. But now we don't have to do that anymore." and so people are always like, "Wait, so these are really the only supplements you're recommending, or you you actually think I should get that from food first?" and like, yeah, but it's so much unlearning and that's like, the premise of everything I teach is like, how can we unlearn this? Because if you don't unlearn all the crap. Like you don't even have space in your mind, or an open mind or open heart to take in new information.

Matthew Blackburn 11:20
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it was it after the RCP that you started to integrate things and heal or what was what were like the major things you did that you started to reverse, like you said, the egg, the shrimp and the lactose allergies.

Ashlee Rowland 11:37
So I just took the RCP right after my baby was born. So that was not too long ago, he's only one right now. So I did all the extremes, you know, like, the fasting and the hit training, fasted in the morning and you know, all the things gluten free, dairy free, soy free, corn free, whatever, like, I don't even know what I was eating. But essentially, while I was eliminating all these foods, I was becoming sicker because you know, my body was just becoming more and more sensitive. But on the plus side, I'm like, very radical and like an all in kind of person and so I have to chill sometimes. But I did like make, I was only eating organic, like, I would starve before I ate something that wasn't organic, which is not good. But like, I had no toxic exposures all the way down to our mattress and my clothes and so that was working for me, you know, so, you know, maybe no toxic exposure, but I was eating like 800 to 1000 calories a day. And I'm extremely active, like, extremely active and so, it's no wonder, you know, the, the eyebrows started going away, I was always freezing, like telling my husband, "I cannot live in the Pacific Northwest, I have to move back to Hawaii" because that's where we lived for a little bit. Because I was so cold all the time and so I just remember, the first winter after kind of making these newer changes with eating enough, balancing blood sugar, minerals, eating animal fats, putting back in all those foods. It was like the first winter, I wasn't freezing the whole time and I was like, actually warm, people would come over to our house and be like, "Can you turn the heat on?" I'm like, "Why?" It's just like, wow, this is the way our bodies are supposed to feel. But with the, you know, with the journey, what I teach people now is not what I did, because what I did was not ideal. Instead, I teach them what I wish I would have done like, I wish I would have found the RCP eight years ago when I first started my healing journey, but I didn't and so now that's where I kind of get people started is. And it's not like ride or die at the RCP, but just like a general, nourishing, ancestral-ish style of living and then in not getting too caught up in the nuances of like the questions you get of like, "Well, our ancestors wouldn't have eaten that much orange juice at one time." And I'm like, "We don't live in a cave with occasional stressors anymore. Like we live in a city or whatever and they're spraying chemicals all over the sky and it's falling on us like, what is going on." So we have to everything you know, is nuance, but there's some basic changes like nourishing trying to add back in food groups. And obviously, there's barriers with that, like the histamine issue or with like a detox issue or Herxheimer or whatever. So yeah, that's what it did.

Matthew Blackburn 14:37
Hmm. That's really interesting. When you said you're always freezing in the winters, because that was, I mean, I went through some stressful experiences, my personal life the last three to six months, but I was this winter I was colder than normal and so I started to really question what I'm doing and just rearrange some stuff. Really get back into the adrenal cocktail consistently. The PUFA connections. Interesting, because I think before we started recording, we were talking about that how there's like a movement of Pete, like quantum health people that are like going to the cenotes or going to Mexico, like four or five, six times here, because I don't know that it's theirs. They can't handle the cold, right? I feel like there's a lot going on there. Yeah, good. Sorry, go ahead.

Ashlee Rowland 15:35
I was saying they think that you can only heal in the warmth, which the sun is so healing, but like, if you're incapable of healing somewhere else, then you should maybe look at what else is going on?

Matthew Blackburn 15:47
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I had my friend Matt Maruka on the show. He created the blue blocker company and he's, he has some interesting light info and I asked him if you can create light from within, or how, how effective that is, you know, but anyway, that's a whole nother show. But yeah, the infrared light that we emit, and that UV light that we admit, that's always been fascinating. Like what that can do.

Ashlee Rowland 16:15
Yeah, that is. I love his glasses, that's what I'm wearing right now.

Matthew Blackburn 16:19
Awesome. So let's see where we can go from here. So

Ashlee Rowland 16:27
I know it's kind of a hard segue. So I wanted to brush on was, for people that are overwhelmed and, you know, they're hearing this information like they've heard 1000 people talk about PUFAs, they've heard 1000 people talk about minerals. And a question I get all the time is, "Okay, but like, practically, what does this mean?" Unfortunately, we have, you know, generations of people who don't know how to think, and I'm not trying to be rude by saying that. But people, people will generally like, genuinely pop into my DMs on Instagram and say, "I know I should research but I don't know how, like, helped me." and I'm like, "Okay, you know, honesty is great". So it's just like, like I said, unlearning. So, physically going and if you're following people that are creating noise in our every post they do, you're kind of like, what that is not, that's confusing, because there's a difference in like being challenged, and then being confused and misled. And so that's something I always have people do is like, literally unfollow the noise and what's causing you like chaos in your life. And so, you know, like, there's a community of us that are sharing similar things and you'll hear us all talk about basically the same things. But how can we implement that? And so I think it'd be helpful if we kind of talked about, like, what are some basic things in tangible, you know, tangible way that people could implement?

Matthew Blackburn 17:55
I love that. Yeah. What about the the adrenal cocktail, because that's been something that, that I've been obsessed with the last month or so. And I actually just had someone send me a message, I don't know if you've heard this, they said, "Store bought organic, bottled orange juice, gave me like an upset stomach and nausea or whatever. But fresh squeezed orange juice, I get no negative effects, and only a benefit." So there are those that seem to be nuances to like the ingredients that people use in that.

Ashlee Rowland 18:28
Yeah, and so I think that's, that's kind of what I want to do is kind of break down, like all the common things we're talking about, and maybe give people like some practical advice on them. So with the orange juice thing, something that's really common in my so I have a private group for my core students, and they all like share this information and a lot of them are like, "I'm getting sores on my mouth when I have the adrenal cocktail, like what's going on." And so I'm doing more research, and I'm figuring out and then I'm thinking about, like, if you're having like unripe fruit, so you know, all of our stuff is being imported. It's not seasonal, obviously, we don't have oranges growing in Idaho in the winter. So these fruit are being picked, and then before they're ripe, and then they're being ripened with ethylene gas, or like ethylene oxide, or whatever. And so that was giving the people like the mouth, stuff, like the rashes and sores and even like ulcers on the mouth and so when they switched to, you know, getting ripe oranges from the store, squeezing them themselves, they weren't having that reaction, like what you were talking about. So it's just like, I never know how to fully explain to people, like it's not just about the adrenal cocktail, it's, it's like, it's deeper than that. It's like the quality of all of it, because then someone will go to the store and buy Tropicana and you know, like, if that's what you if that's what you have, like, okay, whatever, but like, that's not the point. We're not saying to just like, go drink that. So you know, it's kind of hard, it's like, you don't have to do it fresh squeezed, but it is, you know, it seems to be better. Like here we're in Arizona and it's orange. It's like citrus season. So we're making our adrenal cocktails with fresh lemons and fresh grape fruit and fresh oranges and it is so good. Like I squeezed my fresh orange juice from the trees here. And then I went to the store even bought like the organic glyphosate free Uncle Matt's and is so much better the fresh squeeze even then the $9 bottle of Uncle mats.

Matthew Blackburn 20:29
Yeah, no, that was the one I was using and I could I could totally relate. And it doesn't take me long. I mean, the longest part of the whole process to me is straining the orange juice, which, like is another contextual thing, like not everyone has to strain it right. It's kind of variables there.

Ashlee Rowland 20:45
Yeah. It's about like, how it makes you feel, you know, if sometimes my body wants the pulp, sometimes it doesn't. And it that's like people like, "Why no pulp is it? What about pulp?" and I'm like, "It's not, it's like, just chill, you know, like, maybe your body feels better with more fiber, maybe your body isn't ready to have all that." It's just like, so much context. And that's why, you know, it's hard to teach, you know, it's hard to like, because then you say it, and then people start like analyzing it freaking out and I get it, because they look up to what we're sharing and the information and they've seen healing and so they want to do exactly what we're doing. But like sometimes we're just doing what works best for us.

Matthew Blackburn 21:23
Right? Yeah. So when do you implement the the celery juice because that cures Epstein-Barr? No, just kidding.

Ashlee Rowland 21:31
Lol. But we're implementing the adrenal cocktail. So one important thing. So you know, people are always talking about, like, you see it, and then they just do it and so they'll hear about magnesium is good. So they'll just start downing magnesium, or, you know, they'll, they'll hear about the adrenal cocktail and then they'll just start downing the adrenal cocktail. But it's really nuanced when it comes down to mineral levels, because I've seen like clients that literally cannot tolerate more than like an eighth of a dose of an adrenal cocktail, because their sodium and potassium levels are so low and same with magnesium. So like, if you're, if your minerals aren't balanced, and you have to feel the way you feel, so I'll get emails like, "So should I have heart palpitations after taking magnesium?" Or, you know, I'm like, um, "No, you shouldn't. And this is happening, because your potassium and your sodium are so low." So that's why I always am talking about like, be an advocate for your own health, get testing done. So you know, and then, you know, listen to podcasts and do whatever, but like, I think everyone should be drinking the adrenal cocktail, I think it's awesome and if you can't have the orange juice, you know, you can try coconut water, or, like cranberry juice or mango juice. Like there's different things for people who are having like major histamine responses to the orange juice. But the point of it is, is like drink minerals, like put aloe water in your water, like, put salt, it's just like, we need minerals so bad, but people want to get like the right type the right this the right that and it's it's really not that complicating.

Matthew Blackburn 23:07
Yeah, that's a good point. It and it's really all of the what do you say the traumas and just the the stressors that people weren't supporting with nutrition throughout their life that created these, uh severe deficiencies, and even maybe inherited from their mothers, right? If their mom was severely magnesium deficient?

Ashlee Rowland 23:32
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you get what your mom had. So your mom's deficient? That's, you know, what, what you're going to be and unfortunately, that means, you know, you have to work a little bit harder on you know, getting your mineral levels back up, but it's possible. Like I ate totino pizza and Doritos every day of my life for like 17 years. So look at me now.

Matthew Blackburn 23:58
It's a good testament. Yeah, yeah, it was a Pop Tarts and Honey Nut Cheerios, Cheez-It's, you know, all that stuff.

Ashlee Rowland 24:05
Lucky charms.

Matthew Blackburn 24:07
Yep. Yeah. No, there's those are great points and I think if, if someone like can't afford testing, which I think is a common excuse. It's like, then just go slow, right? Like if you're getting heart palpitations from a supplement or the adrenal cocktail, like cut back, right? And like, take less it's kind of like an obvious solution or next step.

Ashlee Rowland 24:31
Yeah. Exactly. Or like cuz I recommend your, I recommend MITO LIFE's Vitamin E, and people are like,"Yeah, I took like four pills right away." and I'm like, "Well, that makes sense why you barf and like, can't move right now." So it's, it's just like we have to ease in and over and over and over again. Most of the people that are attracted to this kind of information, or people like us are more type A, so they have a really hard time going slow. And so I'm I tell people like if I say start with one granule of bee pollen, I literally mean start with one granular bee pollen. Because these foods, if you're coming from a completely depleted state your pathways are closed, like, all your pathways are closed, like there's 71 different pathways for the thyroid to function. And if it's all been clogged up with fluoride, or like fluoride based medications, or whatever, like your thyroid is not going to work. So you come in trying to do all these thyroid supports, it's not going to work. So you just have to chill, like, you just have to chill out and do it. And so for your E, for example, I always have people just poke a hole in it, take a drop on their mouth, even if they could tolerate more, they start there, and they avoid that reaction or whatever. And maybe you can talk about that, because that's like, I can ask that every single day about your vitamin E.

Matthew Blackburn 25:52
That's awesome. Yeah, when I, when I found Ray Peat years ago, it was like, two to three years ago, now. I got on vitamin E, and it was a sunflower oil based one just like when you'd buy commonly at your health food store, whatever. And it was the the tinier capsules, and I would feel fine on those. But then when I started taking the MCT based ones, I noticed it was it felt heavier, like more dense and it is because it's it's MCT oil. And it has a completely different metabolic pathway than the liver and it's a very strong antimicrobial, and you know, gut infections that will just go through and start to kill those critters anaerobic bacteria. So I always yeah, that's, that's really interesting with the needle, but I just tell people to take it with a big meal that contains fat. Because usually, if I can take it on an empty stomach and be fine now, because I've been taking MCT oil for years, but if someone's new to it, yeah, they're gonna be on the toilet and have a bad time.

Ashlee Rowland 26:57
Yeah, and MCT oil is like a fast, really fast acting. So it like you said, like, it'll make you like, poop your pants. If you've never had it before, because it's different than coconut oil. People think it's just coconut oil, but it's it's different. It's so-

Matthew Blackburn 27:12
Yeah. So while we're on the topic, supplements, you know, open up a rabbit hole here, cod liver oil. Since you worked with Morley. This is such a heated topic. I think the last two, three weeks since I brought it up. And it's hilarious people get so emotional about it. And to me, it just makes sense with iron overload and how everyone's so messed up that and I just look back at the last like the first 30 years of my life. I got pretty much no retinol. I was like plant based for 10 years, I grew up pretty much vegetarian, not eating much butter egg yolks at all. And so I barely got any retinol for three decades and my body just like more and more and the beef liver is good. But I found like personally combining it with the CLO is the next, it's taking me to the next level my health. Like for sure.

Ashlee Rowland 28:09
Yeah, and man, people get really heated. So it's funny because you and I had similar stance on it. I've so I don't look like it. I'm very white blond hair, German genes took over my whole body. But I'm Alaska Native, like my, my grandparents lived in villages in Alaska. That's where I was born and raised. Like, they ate cod liver oil and that's just what they did in the villages and so I was telling my husband how specifically genetically for me, that makes sense even more, but for a long time, I was just like, you know, people mix it up with fish oil. And it's not this isn't like fish oil, like Omega three fish oil we're talking about. But I was like, it doesn't still make sense to me, you know, this cold water fish? Why would I take this? But when you step back from that black and white thinking, which is how you and I both are. You look at the nutrient profile of it and it's like pristine, perfect ratio of vitamin D to vitamin A. It has like, it's just perfect. And then I'm in the class with Morley, he's always talking about it and I'm like, "Just leave me alone." Like he's not talking to me specifically, but everyone in the group like, "Yeah. yeah" and I'm like, "But, I don't know." And so for four years, my husband and I, we couldn't get pregnant and I was that's when I was like doing everything right. And, you know, that included like fasting and almond milk and all that whatever. I never drink oat milk, luckily. But it wasn't two months after I started the root cause protocol, including the cod liver oil that I got pregnant. And I mean, that's not a coincidence, at all. You know, I, there was I'm not saying that I went from very unwell to healed in two months because I did all that other work over eight years of you know, getting rid of toxins and other things, but within two months I had already been, you know, basically balancing my blood sugar eating more, I stopped the hard training and everything like that, but there was still a missing piece, my skin also breaking out. Two months into the RCP, in the cod liver oil, I was pregnant, and I like could not believe it, I had come into a place in my mind where I was like, maybe, you know, maybe I'm not gonna actually have kids. And now like I had the best pregnancy ever. I had a wonderful birth, my baby boy is so healthy. My hair is like, all everywhere right now you can see because all these baby hairs are growing in and the skin is clear. And people will say even from like the first time I recorded my course to I re-recorded it after my son was born. And I had this like puffy skin and stuff. And it's like as I was pregnant, I healed like I became healthier and now I always like flex in front my husband like as a joke because I can see the muscle definition in my arms I haven't been able to see since I was like a really teenage kind of kid. And so cod liver oil. Back to what you said is like, I think it's completely underplayed and really important, because like you said, we're not able to get enough most people aren't able to get enough from the other foods, especially if they're having allergies to them, or they're not eating enough of them. They're stuck in kind of like the diet mindset like they shouldn't be eating eggs because of cholesterol or whatever.

Matthew Blackburn 31:27
Yeah, yeah. Wow. That's really that's a fascinating story that super cool. Have you looked at? I'm guessing you have since Morley. Yes. That you trained under the Weston A. Price Foundation. Do you ever dive into their work?

Ashlee Rowland 31:44
Yeah, but it's funny because I, I had kind of heard of them several years ago, but I never really learned a lot about them until recently, like until doing class with Morley and learning about, you know, all the different things, which if you want, we can also talk about fermented versus non-fermented because people, I don't recommend fermented cod liver oil, and everyone is freaking out. Why? So I don't know. We can talk about that if you want to. But yeah, it wasn't a price is great. Like, you don't agree with everything everyone says like, that's just the way it is.

Matthew Blackburn 32:18
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about the fermented verse unfermented. Because everyone's like, Matt's a flip flopper, you know, completely changing your message. And like, No, I'm still saying that, so like most of the cod liver oil, like I was, I was kind of depressed to learn that a lot of companies actually strip it and then fortify it with A and D. That's how they actually get the price so low cuz a lot of people are like, "Rosita is so expensive." and they just order like Carlson's on Amazon or whatever, for like, 12 bucks for two bottles. I'm like, That can't be good quality. If you're getting a bottle for six bucks. Like it's that's super sketchy.

Ashlee Rowland 32:58
Yeah, that is that is so weird in and then to, like, people will like Nordic Naturals, they'll go for Nordic Naturals instead. But if you look at like the nutrient profile of them, you'd have to take more of the Nordic Naturals than the Rositas and so you're ending up you're actually spending more, but people are so obsessed with like, a smaller price tag, then, like they don't, I don't know, it's hard to like, get that in the minds of people like, yeah, you can buy like a nine pound little mini block of raw cheese at Whole Foods, or you can buy it in bulk for $50 at once and they're like, "No, I will not spend $50 at once."

Matthew Blackburn 33:36
So what do you say? Fermented is like rancid because yeah, that's what got a lot of people sick. Like I can't remember the doctor. I posted a YouTube video. Like there's a whole controversy with the Weston A. Price Foundation, with people getting heart disease, and I'm getting sick from from certain cod liver oil brands. But I believe that was the fermented stuff. That's my understanding.

Ashlee Rowland 34:04
Yeah, it's just, I mean, there's the issue of like, the being rancid. And then there's the issue of like, the integrity of the brand. Like is that even? You know, is it even real stuff? It's like, it's like, all of these nuanced things. And we do a lot of research on the specific brands we recommend. Whether or not we're affiliated with them or not, is why we share because we've taken the time to call the companies see their sourcing see this and that's why we're not recommending, you know, X, Y or Z brand because they're fortifying their products. It's not naturally occurring, or they're bottling their menu, like their processing is weird. They're using weird alcohols or whatever, maybe.

Matthew Blackburn 34:48
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The the A, D and E and K relationships so fascinating because I've been diving down that rabbit hole for the last week. And it's funny like every study, it's like, referencing another fat soluble vitamin. Like, I'm reading a study on vitamin A toxicity and it's like "vitamin E protects from vitamin A excess." Like, Well, that makes sense, right? So people are worried about dying from taking retinol making make sure you're getting E and K to balance them, right?

Ashlee Rowland 35:22
Yeah, we definitely don't want to ever isolate any of these things and that's why we all we talk about them together. And going back to the money issue people normally talk about, well, you know, I can't afford that. 9.5 out of 10 people that I talked to actually can that say that, and it's a, it's a budgeting issue. And so I'm, like, so passionate about budgeting, because we, me and my husband were Christian missionaries, like working overseas on the field, we're making a lot of money. And I was able to still make this lifestyle work, because we literally, like, we didn't go to movies, we didn't, I had a strict gas budget. It's all about priorities. And there, I get it, there are literally people who are paycheck to paycheck and that's when you know, we help them prioritize certain things more than others. But like a bottle of, or for someone who's saying, like, "I cannot, what's the difference in this and Matt's vitamin E? They're the exact same thing, just his is way more expensive?" Like, they're not the exact same thing. This one is from soy, his is not. And what and I just said, How often do you eat out and she's like, "Well, we get out like three times a week." and I'm like, "Okay, well, you could cut out one half of those times and afford a bottle of vitamin E." Because when you go out to eat, it's a lot of money, or going out to movies, or buying new clothes all the time. So it's just about prioritizing what is most important to you. And for those who are already doing that, like amazing, and I get it, I get that money is strapped sometime. But most of the time you can make it work. Even if that means like cutting back on like making your own bone broth, instead of buying it or, you know, going in on a half share of a cow or something. So you're not paying $14 a pound or whatever at the store. So that's kind of like a tangent, but important, I think.

Matthew Blackburn 37:12
Those are awesome points. Yeah and become a MITO LIFE affiliate because you can you can get, you know, essentially free product if you share with your friends, you know.

Ashlee Rowland 37:20
Exactly, yeah and I love that because that's something that I started doing when we were actually on the mission field, I became an affiliate and all that money, I would not treat as income, I would literally just put it aside separately. And that's what I would get like to use for the products for red light panel for blue light blockers or whatever. And you love these products, and you're passionate about them. So just share your link, share your code or whatever. And like you said, Now you make money. I mean, someone buys a bottle, you get money from it, it's like a salesperson.

Matthew Blackburn 37:53
Well, this is a good segue because you guys are living out of a van. Right? And you're saying how to sustain wellness on the go. I have experienced with this because I used to be a driver, both for cannabis and just like an Uber Lyft driver did that for like several years. And so I learned really well how to master the cooler, you know, and how to load the cooler and liquids and remember just chewing blocks or raw goat cheese on the go and that felt super good.

Ashlee Rowland 38:29
Yeah, yeah. Travel and wellness is definitely like something I'm like weirdly passionate about because so for, for two years, me and my husband lived in a sprinter van. And we traveled full time for two years and you know, kept up the same way I eat now and in my house is the same way we eat then and people are like, "What, how is that possible?" And yeah, you go to the store more often because your fridge is like microscopic. And you know, I can't have a whole cow in my van. But you know, there's different things we did. So like our entire build was non toxic. The paints we use, the whole van was shielded, we had organic mattress, like I went, like I told you, I'm like very radical person. So even in our little van it was built so somebody with multiple chemical sensitivity could go in it and live in it and be fine. And so that goes all the way down to the food we're eating the stores we're shopping at so one of the coolest parts was we would just be driving and then you see like a sign for eggs on the side of the road. So you just like turn off and go get your eggs and get whatever, you know foods you can find it that time in farmers markets. And it made it kind of more like living in Europe, you buy fresh daily, because you can't store anything more in your refrigerator. If we're able to find eggs that hadn't been like bleached and whatever, then we could keep out on the counter. So that freed up space in the refrigerator. But yeah, so we lived in our van for two years. And then I got pregnant and so we were living in the van until I was seven months pregnant. And then I wanted to have a home birth and nobody except for me thought it was a good idea to have the baby in the van. My husband's like we're getting a house. So we move back up to the Pacific Northwest, and then lived in a house for a year. And we're just about done building out our second van, we're down in Phoenix, not in a healthy environment. But that's fine, because we're resilient and we can support ourselves with minerals and cod liver oil and vitamin E, and not stress about it. Because if we're stressing about it, then that's just depleting minerals even more. So we're working on our other van, and that will be done here soon and then we'll head back up to the Pacific Northwest. And, yeah, we'll continue living that healthy lifestyle and, you know, supporting local farms. And you can be because it's a lifestyle, not a diet, you can, you know, keep it up anywhere you go. It's not really like, well, how do you transition to that it's just kind of the way it is and you just make it work if it's important to you.

Matthew Blackburn 41:01
Did you guys ever ground the van because that's what I was renting out an RV in my friend's backyard. I grounded it to rot in the earth.

Ashlee Rowland 41:10
Yep, we sure did. So we had, we had like a grounding sheet plugged into like a grounded, you know, outlet or whatever and then we had the rod underneath the van. So we had the grounding sheet. And then, I mean, the amount of time that you spend outside when you live in an 80 square foot vehicle is a lot. So yeah, just being out in nature and so many cool things and so many different surfaces that you can put your feet on and rivers and lakes and streams and we didn't have a shower in our van. So we showered in lakes and beach shower and it's just it was a lot of fun. And yeah, but yeah, grounding it was important because I want I didn't want to go through all that work and then be sleeping. You know, on my rubber tires. I wanted to be grounded while I was sleeping.

Matthew Blackburn 42:00
Yeah, yeah, I noticed a huge difference when I started doing that. Did you ever get into cold baths? Like ice bath?

Ashlee Rowland 42:09
Yep. Yeah, I did that. This is actually interesting. So I don't I don't fully know what happened here. But it's one of those things that's like probably how people will feel really good when they intermittent fast, but then you know, what comes up comes down, or what goes up comes down. So I had that extreme cold intolerance. I, we were talking about this before or on here, I can't remember. And so I was doing some emotional work, because that's really important and crucial part of healing. So I had some, you know, trapped emotions, hidden traumas I was doing PSYCH-K was the specific one, kind of like EFT. And I, so every time that I would get cold, whether it was in the winter, or whether it was just like, usually had to do with water, and my lips would turn completely purple, and then my fingernails would turn all purple. And so we're doing this emotional work and basically, there was a lot of trauma for me around water. And, so we would do the PSYCH-K work, and then I would cold plunge. And I remember after doing that cold plunge is really when my cold intolerance went away. And I don't know, I don't know, like around the same time, I was making dietary changes and stuff. So I think it had a lot to do with some kind of weird cellular memory. And then just like almost allowing myself to rest in the cold. I don't think it had as much to do with the cold plunge as it did just allowing myself to take the deep breaths you have to take to not go hypothermic in the frozen water. But yeah, I did that for a while and then I would do like when I wasn't with a freezer like a deep freeze that I was getting in I would do the cold showers and, and whatever. I don't do that anymore, but I did do that. And in Alaska growing up, we do polar plunges where they would drill holes in the ice on lakes and you jump in so

Matthew Blackburn 44:05
Oh, that's cool. Yeah, there's a hilarious Joe Rogan ice bath meme that's circulating. It's like, yeah, when someone's, when it you know, it's an annoyed meme, and then he's like doing the crazy breaths. Like, well, but yeah, I'm still connecting. I'm still connecting the dots with tolerance to cold. Like, I know, there's a relationship with PUFAs and the metabolic rates and there's willpower. But I feel like just yeah, the Wim Hof people are missing some important stuff like just they're only looking at willpower, or something.

Ashlee Rowland 44:41
Yeah, yeah and there's like major, you know, dietary components that have to do with it and like if you're struggling with thyroid health, and a clear indicator like for people with practical takeaway, just go and look in the mirror and if you know that outer third of the eyebrow is, is gone, or if you always have cold feet and toes like there's probably some thyroid stuff going on and maybe you should stop drinking fluoride, if you still are using fluoride toothpaste. And yeah, there's more to it than just like willing your way through the winters if you are unable to be warm.

Matthew Blackburn 45:15
Yeah. Do you think most people have like subclinical hypothyroidism? Like a lot of people promote Broda Barnes work and some of his books. It's-

Ashlee Rowland 45:26
Yeah, I appreciate Broda Barnes and I definitely think people have a lot more people have the subclinical hypothyroid for sure. I mean, just with taking the temps, and the symptoms people have. I mean, it's like, if we didn't live in this age where testing was available, and all of these things, it's like doctor, like, old doctors back in the day would be like, oh, like if there was a wise doctor, they would, they would think definitely, there's some thyroid stuff going on. And it's so it's such an easily disrupted gland. And so it's, you know, why it makes sense with all the crap like the iron in the food, the fluoride in the water, the fluoride in the toothpaste, the all the different halogens and things. And when you dig into like the, you know, the science of all the molecular weights and the chlorine and all of that it makes sense. Like, it makes complete sense why this gland is so attacked.

Matthew Blackburn 46:20
Yeah, I even think back to like, like, I was a gamer, like, I got really big in role playing games before I discovered real life. And I just remember, like snacking, you know, at the desk, and, you know, it was just straight carbs, with no animal protein. And we know that, you know, a balanced meal has both. And I just looked back at my childhood, and like I was eating so many imbalanced meals, you know, space too far apart, whatever with it. And I look at all the people I grew up with, and they were doing the same thing. So yeah, it makes sense that hypothyroidism is a very common thing way more than people think.

Ashlee Rowland 47:00
Yeah, and then like, its sensitivity, even to blue light. So like you're talking about gaming and your thyroid facing right at the screen. And so I mean, it's just like everything, it's like, people don't understand, I'm like, your skin has photoreceptors on it. You know, so just like covering the eyes isn't important enough. And you can go so extreme, but it just, it helps people to connect the dots when they think they're doing everything right to realize like, oh, we really are being kind of like, I don't want to say attacked, but like cornered in at every angle. Like you have to make a complete lifestyle change, or else things will pop up and in. We don't get why.

Matthew Blackburn 47:37
Yeah. Did you ever experiment with iodine for fluoride detox, because that's what everyone's, that's what everyone's going to when, you know, they're trying to quote detox fluoride. Like, just take this take iodine, and I used to take a lot more years ago. But now I just, yeah-

Ashlee Rowland 47:55
Yeah, did that for a while, like just the straight droppers and just *shloop* it. Yeah, I did that. And, I mean, it didn't. I don't think it. I mean, it probably helped maybe, I don't know. I was doing, I did and it was always hard for me to pinpoint what helped because I was doing like 1000 things at once. But, you know, definitely upping the iodine in the food, I think was helpful for me with that, you know, again, those foods are really high in minerals. So what was it? So I just, I always tried to think like, you know, there's healing in the food. And I tried not to isolate things as much as possible, but sometimes they are like, sometimes we take Vitamin E and sometimes we take magnesium. But yeah, there's there's so many rabbit trails and things that we can do and focus on symptoms and, and then have like 30 supplements for that symptom and 20 supplements for that symptom. But instead if we just like, alright, let's focus on the cells. Let's focus on your body as a whole. Then it gets simple.

Matthew Blackburn 48:56
Right? Yeah, we were talking about the interesting, man, Dr. Jack Kruse, before we started recording. And yeah, he, one of the most interesting things I've heard from him; When I used to listen to him a lot, he said, kind of switching topics. "If you can't tell day from night, then you can't control carbon flow from foods." So basically, like, you know, getting outside in the morning, in the day, getting that, that that bright light, I just want to jump back to that topic, because I probably took that to the extreme a few years ago, perhaps just like, very militant about it, and sungazing a whole lot. I think that can have benefits, but I think people can take that too far and kind of make it a stressor in a way.

Ashlee Rowland 49:50
Yeah and I too was militant about like, do not eat after dark. Like even if you're starving, and so I wouldn't like we'd have, in the Pacific North West, I'm like, alright, well, we're eating dinner at 3:30 and then we're fasting from 3:30 until eight the next morning or whatever. And no matter how hungry I was, I would just be like, "Just go to sleep, it's fine." And then like, some nights I would, I'm like, "I cannot do this." and I run to the fridge and grab a perfect bar, eat the whole thing. Like, what is going on? But yeah, it's, it's always this balance and that's, that's always my conflict with being a very black and white thinker, is having to get gray sometimes. Because, yeah, maybe it was supportive, you know, back in the day to eat with the light, and to not eat with the dark. But we have so many stressors these days that we do things differently. And then the same like I was, and I still love the idea of seasonal eating, I think my, my biggest downfall is that I have this obsession with like living in the Garden of Eden, basically. Like living this untainted, perfect lifestyle, and so I want to do all these things, and I want to eat seasonally all the time but then I'm like, "You know what? Orange juice is really full of minerals year round, no matter where you are." And so I've had to kind of, you know, it's a great place to start and try and then people are like, "Wait, Oranges, Oranges aren't seasonal, where you are, or dates or whatever." and I'm like, "Yeah." and you know, I have to kind of get over that, swallow my pride in that. And we just have to eat to basically nurture and take care of ourselves because like, it's just a sick, it's a sick population now, unfortunately. So yeah, I have those tendencies.

Matthew Blackburn 51:42
Well, it's a balanced perspective, because the whole ancestral lifestyle is like really trending right now. Like it's been really heavily marketed. And, you know, the more ancestral you can be, the healthier you are is the message and that's not necessarily true, right?

Ashlee Rowland 51:56
Yeah. Yeah and it's tempting, like, people will be like, "Well, you talk about ancestral, but then you're also telling me to eat carbs?" and I'm like, "Yeah, because I'm not on anybody's training. I'm trying to, I'm just trying to, you know, nourish my body and help you to nourish yours in the best way." And so I think if you can kind of get rid of like, any kind of title, that's why like, I hate like, pro metabolic. I say it because people get it, what it means but it's just about nourishing the body. It's about, but then you're like, "Well, what's the yes and no list?" I'm like, "There is none." So that's confusing for people they really want a yes or no.

Matthew Blackburn 52:38
Yeah, people want this, it really spelled out completely and life is not- like you said, "There's a gray area and there's a lot of self experimentation." Like you and I can attest to that and what works for you now may not work for you in a few months or a year, right. So you have to constantly adapt and shift.

Ashlee Rowland 52:59
Yeah, exactly. And it's really freeing. People think it's kind of stressful not to have like, yes, no's, but it's really freeing, because then you get to see what works best for your body. Like I have clients that you know, live in Hawaii, and they have macadamia nuts growing outside on their trees, and they eat them, and they love them, and they feel great on them. And then, you know, people who don't, like they're just buying like the roasted whatever, they can't do that and I'm like, that's why I don't say yes or no to it, because it's whatever makes you feel best. Like there's a general like don't eat vegetable oils, like, come on, and try to get stuff that's not doused in like fertilizers or like NPK stuff, like, you know, there's some basic things, but overall, it's just about nourishing and so if you kind of zoom out and just focus on nourishing, it really becomes more simple, but I guess we could say that, because of our knowledge, maybe but for some people it may not be that way. I always have to ask my husband like, "Is this simple enough, like, does it make sense?" and he's like, "Yeah, but we're in it, so maybe it isn't that simple to other people, I don't know."

Matthew Blackburn 54:08
Yeah, well, it's hard to think rationally I think in, from a grounded place when you have severe vitamin deficiencies and mineral dysregulation. I mean, I speak from experience. I mean, I remember being so frustrated in school like, "Am I mentally handicapped like why am I almost failing this class? I know I'm smart." you know?

Ashlee Rowland 54:31
Yeah, that's a great a great thing to bring up because a lot of people beat themselves up and I'm like, "You're literally functioning from a like, incapacitated state, your minerals like your minerals are not there." So your brain is misfiring essentially like you can't think straight you're having like ADD. ADHD like, I get you I was there they wanted me on Ritalin like a million times because I was so ADD and like kind of chill. But yeah, when you operate from that and from like a super like a, overstimulated nervous system. Like, how are you supposed to just chill and like, take a step back? You can't and that's why I think we all try to hit mineral so hard. So then you can be like in a regulated state and think, like a, like a functioning human being.

Matthew Blackburn 55:18
Yeah, I love that. Let's see, well, Ashlee, do you want to jump into the Q&A questions? Because we have some really good ones here.

Ashlee Rowland 55:24
Yeah. Let's do it.

Matthew Blackburn 55:27
Awesome, I think you healed from polycystic ovarian syndrome, right? Because we had a few people asked, "What did what did that look like?"

Ashlee Rowland 55:40
Yeah, so, I was, I'm assuming I well, I'm assuming I went undiagnosed for quite a while. But then, when we were living in the van, we were driving through a little town and I started getting what I thought were period cramps, which are not normal, by the way for anyone listening. And so I was like, okay, period, cramps, whatever. So I went and laid on the bed in the back of the van, and the pain just like intensified. I have a really high pain tolerance, so I was like, you know what, it's whatever, it's fine. But then it started getting like, to the point of where it was, it was not good. Like, where your basically your sympathetic nervous system starts to take over. I started losing like, like control of like, basic muscular function, like I thought I was gonna pee my pants, because I couldn't like even control my bladder, because the pain was so intense that I was about to pass out, which I didn't know. And so we get to a gas station. I'm like sweating, dying, and I'm in a gas station bathroom, just praying, like, God, please don't let me die here or pass out on the floor in this gas station bathroom. And I like if, for my husband, I was telling him this and he was laughing because I like hate gas station bathrooms, because they're disgusting. And I was like, leaning up against the metal because it was cold, like trying to like, regulate my body temperature, because it was so hot and so luckily didn't pass out there. My husband came out to the van and saw that I was just like, completely looked like a corpse like I had no color anywhere in my body and I was sweating. And so he rushed me to the emergency room and I'm like, "No, don't, don't rush me there, they're just gonna do nothing. They're just gonna give me saline solution and charges two grand." Sure enough, what they did. And so that was like the first episode with a cyst rupturing, and I didn't realize that. And then for about a year after that, it continued to happen. And then there was two times are actually passed out from the pain of the cysts rupturing, and it's explained as worse than the pain associated with childbirth, which I agree with and I can now say, because I had a kid. So it was extremely painful and so then I went in for the ultrasound, the transvaginal ultrasound, and at that point, they had all ruptured, so there were no more existing ones. But the interesting thing to me here was that I had just been mega dosing, high dose vitamin D, and high dose vitamin C in the form of a sorbic acid. So it was we had gotten the thing like way before, it was cool, like several months before it got cool, you know? And I was like, pounding back ascorbic acid, like up to bowel tolerance, and vitamin D, and zinc, you know, like the trio. And so I'm thinking that that's what triggered the rupture of all of these cysts, like all the oxidative stress, you know, to cause all of that to happen. And then simultaneously, I had been right after I was like, "Oh, my gosh, what have I done?" But whatever, you don't know what you don't know. So I implemented the RCP, and the mineral so it's like, no new cysts had formed because I was now supplementing like with nourishing things and then all the other ones had bone up basically from all the ascorbic acid in my body. So yeah, that was, you know, estrogen dominance, not having enough progesterone in the body. I had a Dutch test that showed me that my progesterone levels were postmenopausal levels when I was only 21. Estrogen was way out of the roof, the pathways it was favoring, we're not good, very inflammatory. Testosterone was really high. And I was stuck in this cycle of like how to raise progesterone naturally for years and years, and I couldn't figure it out. And that didn't happen, until I started focusing on minerals and cod liver oil and back to what we were just saying, ancestral eating. So eating liver, supplementing liver prioritizing copper, but that was the PCOS story. Yeah, it was quite horrible and I got a lot of trauma around it. And so anytime that I would get like, a subtle cramp in that space after, I would start getting hot sweats and like freaking out because our minds are so powerful, and I thought it was all going to happen again. But, but yeah, so if someone's ever experienced that, I definitely recommend they do some kind of emotional work to release the trauma around that. And if you're experiencing PCOS, I also encourage you not to Google what to do for PCOS because everything you look up is going to be what you shouldn't be doing: Restricting carbs, restricting calories working out. I mean, it's it's just sick the medications. Anytime that you're going to go on a medication to force your body to do something, you just need to ask yourself why isn't it doing it in the first place, what you can do to support it. But yeah, that was kind of my story with PCOS, which people are like, "PCOS isn't always like ovarian rupturing" whatever. I'm like, "Okay, I know what it is and I had polycystic ovarian cyst that ruptured inside of my body. It was horrible."

Matthew Blackburn 1:00:47
That's, yeah, that's the wildest PCOS story for sure. I've ever heard our mutual friend-

Ashlee Rowland 1:00:53
And people are living with that all the time. It's sick.

Matthew Blackburn 1:00:56
Yeah, it seems like an epidemic. Like it's, it's very prevalent in women and the causes are kind of obvious. It's like iron overload, IUDs like birth control and I was gonna say our mutual friend Paris said, "Estrogens a backup antioxidant for copper." I think that's what Morley talks about and it's like, it all makes sense. Yeah. Like you said, the answer is copper partly. Right?

Ashlee Rowland 1:01:23
Yeah. In the body's like, we're always told, like in the autoimmune community, like the body's attacking itself, and I hate that verbage. It couldn't be more incorrect. Your body is literally, like you said, "It's the backup estrogen, that backup X antioxidant." Your body is like trying to pull in all the forces because the normal pathways closed, then they like run around to the next door, that one's closed. They run around to the next door. So now it's pulling all the zinc. It's pulling all the magnesium. It's pulling everything trying to help you not attacking you or sabotaging you. But it gets you know, to last straw and there's nothing else for it to pull from and that's when we start to experience this dysfunction.

Matthew Blackburn 1:02:04
Hmm, yeah, I usually tell women like systemic enzymes and vitamin E and then copper sources that would kind of be the trio. I've heard stories of women's cysts just dissolving with the Serrapeptase Nattokinase, it's pretty cool.

Ashlee Rowland 1:02:23
Seriously yeah, and the doctors will tell you, that's not possible. Because I had a bunch of existing cysts and like the summit ruptured, and the rest went away. They dissolved once, you know, so it's the same story with like bone spurs. So I, I was also diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, when I was 16, and bone spurs on my hip so that I had three bone spurs, they'd explain them to me as sharp teeth that were cutting open my bursa sac, so I had bursitis, bone spurs, bone, and then the rheumatoid arthritis. And just from an unintentional diet change of moving to Hawaii, nannying a family, that's where my health health journey began. Going there, they ate very, very clean, and they completely decalcified, and I remember because like I told you, I was Alaska Native, so we get free medical; So the surgery would have been free. You know, they really wanted me to go in for surgery. And I remember coming back to Alaska, going back in, having another appointment, and them yelling at me, like at a 18 year old kid. "Why did you get surgery somewhere else where you had to pay for it, it would have been free here." And I'm like, "I didn't get surgery." and they would not believe that they literally just decalcified. The body is so powerful and when you you know remove all of the crap like wow, it can heal.

Matthew Blackburn 1:03:46
Yeah, yeah, it's funny all the memes around decalcification, right? Like I came from the raw vegan community and it's like every meme, decalcify your pineal gland with cacao, you know, raw chocolate, and you know, Kangen Water, whatever they say. And it's like, did you know that your whole body's calcified, not just your pineal gland? Let's see. Hormonal acne? We had a few questions on that. Is that something you ever experienced?

Ashlee Rowland 1:04:18
Yeah, so I used to have horrible acne. You can see now my skin is pretty clear. You know, there's the occasional whatever. But yeah, I used to have really bad cystic acne. That's what I went on birth control for. So you know, you go in. "Oh, okay. Yeah, let's put you on birth control" like great idea. Give you 70 milligrams of iron per pill. Cool, twice a day. 140 milligrams of iron a day going into a 14 year olds body. So when on the birth control pill for the acne, cleared off the acne, but as soon as I got off of it, acne came back with vengeance. And so if you're dealing with acne, it's, there's so many different facets and I'm going to say minerals, copper, you know, all the basic things? There are like nuances like, "What are the skincare products you're using? Are you washing your face too much? What kind of water? Are you washing your face and does your shower have a filter? Are you running chlorine all of your faces killing all, you know the biome of your skin? You know, are you eating foods that are triggering like an allergic or an intolerant reaction right now, while you're healing?" So there's there's so many questions when it comes to acne in the skin. But a lot of times what I'll see when people switch to this more nourishing lifestyle is they will experience a major breakout in their skin because they go too fast and the skin is a detox organ. And so the skin breaks out and then it starts to clear itself out. So that's probably one of the top like before- Hi. That's probably one of the top before and after photos, like in my group I see is like cystic acne to clear up skin.

Matthew Blackburn 1:05:59
Wow. Yeah, that's what happened to me when I started vitamin E, high dosing. And I just used my sauna for like, like an hour a day for months. And I think if I would have included vitamin A, like from natural sources like natural retinol, I would have it would have been a smoother ride. But because I just had one part of the equation, the vitamin E it did help countering the estrogen and I dealt with acne and eczema my whole life. That was like my main health thing. And yeah, the E was, I was gonna ask if any of your clients talk to you about Accutane that they were on because that's the big scare right now with cod liver oil. They're like, "What if I took Accutane because I already got a ton of A." I'm like, "Well, that was synthetic."

Ashlee Rowland 1:06:46
Mhmm, yeah, so Accutane is so bad, it's synthetic A, and like you just said, and it binds to receptors differently. It is, it's horrible. It's just so horrible. So I will have clients that we basically go through every possible thing, and I'm like, stumped, like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to call Morley on this one. And then I'm like, "Okay, there's got to be something" I'm like, "Okay, tell me about this. Tell me about that. Tell me about your skincare. Tell me..." "Oh, well, I was on Accutane." And I'm like, "Oh, that makes sense." And it just pulls copper right out of the body. Next comes magnesium, magnesium, like, all your minerals start to go, your livers taxed. So then all the zinc has been pulled to your liver, when it's trying to actually you know, employ magnesium. So Accutane is a synthetic and I still think that someone who was taking Accutane could benefit from cod liver oil, because it's different and we just have to work on getting that synthetic A out of the body. Once you've done for so long. I dont know matt, why dont you tell us, I'd say bad.

Matthew Blackburn 1:07:52
Yeah, that's great. This kind of a different question. Springwater: Good or bad? Yeah, I think it's nuanced. I mean, I say if you're traveling, just like eating food in another land, enjoy the water in that space but yeah, I wouldn't do it consistently.

Ashlee Rowland 1:08:17
Yeah, and the issue with that is the solids that are, you know, in the water, like all the sedentary sediment on the sediment, you know, that's in the water, and it's normally a higher ratio of calcium to other minerals that we need, and most people are calcified. So that's, that's the, that's kind of the basic with spring water. But like you said, we went to Michigan, and we went to like an artesian well, and got the water, it was so good and we drink it. It was awesome. And like, if I'm in Africa, like we used to do a lot of mission trips and stuff, or Peru or wherever, like, you can't, you can't drink their water. So we're drinking bottled spring water. And that's, that's much better than getting like a parasite or something. But if you're home, if you're home and like people just buy bottles and bottles and bottles or like the glass things of, of spring water, like I don't I don't recommend that and I know you don't, either.

Matthew Blackburn 1:09:11
Yeah, yeah, I think people freak out with reverse osmosis because they're like, it's gonna de mineralize you and like, just put a pinch of white salt in or, you know, make sole salt or you can put magnesium bicarbonate in there.

Ashlee Rowland 1:09:25
Yeah, and I love that you brought that up, because that's like, people are always like, "Well, the pristine hydro is too expensive and the aquifer is expensive and a whole house systems expensive." And I'm like, "Okay" Well, I just had a client that she's, she works at a college, like she's a college student and she's like, "I cannot do this" and I'm like, "Okay, then just go buy a big five gallon container, take it down to wherever, get RO water." She's like, "What?" and I'm like, "Just make sure you put minerals back in." So if anyone here is doing that, make sure you put minerals back in because if not, you're drinking a thirsty water, they call it, and it's basically going in, devoid of minerals. So it's pulling all the minerals from your body. So it's kind of like reverse hydration.

Matthew Blackburn 1:10:05
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. I used the trace mineral research for years before. I got to filter and it was great. So

Ashlee Rowland 1:10:13
Yeah. Does your does your whole house filter remineralize?

Matthew Blackburn 1:10:17
It does. Yeah. Yeah. So there's that media called Corsex. And it's like, usually it's more calcium than magnesium, or like all calcium. It's crazy. But this is like a blend of magnesium and calcium. bicarbonate. So yeah, I'm really excited. I mean, the spring water here, I'm at like 34 TDS, super fortunate. That's part of what I love about North Idaho. It's just the abundant water. And it's pretty clean.

Ashlee Rowland 1:10:50
I love that. And another question I get about water a lot. So people are on wells and they're like, "Well, how do I know?" They just need to put a TDS meter to their water, correct? And then is there like some kind of specific filter they can get on to, you know?

Matthew Blackburn 1:11:08
Yeah, yeah, like my first when I moved up here, the first house, the sediment filters, and I was on a well, and after running through the, there's like 20 inch, big sediment filters. They were both completely brown. And when I moved to that house, the previous owners, they just had two tiny, there were like, I don't know, six, eight inch filters, super small. And there was like one sediment, one carbon. I'm like, that's not doing anything. So yeah, the primary concern being on a well is just taking out that insane amount of iron, which is most likely in there.

Ashlee Rowland 1:11:48
Yeah if your toilets orange, or your sink's orange.

Matthew Blackburn 1:11:52
Right. Yeah, people don't realize they absorb it through their skin, right? That's like another, I mean, it's an advanced layer but it's it's an important thing to realize. Like, that's one big reason for iron overload is the transdermal been getting.

Ashlee Rowland 1:12:09
Yeah, like, well, for people they can think about, we recommend, you know, they do transdermal, magnesium. So if magnesium is getting into your skin, then why wouldn't you know, something else?

Matthew Blackburn 1:12:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But my friend that sells float tanks, sensory deprivation tanks and installs them. He told me something that shocked me. He said, when he goes to float spas, he often sees that the the water has like a tint to it, like a brown tint and that's because their filters haven't removed all the iron for the municipal water. So people going in the float tanks are actually getting a little dose of iron. It still, it's still worth it to me for the magnesium, but yeah.

Ashlee Rowland 1:12:51
Yeah and that's the whole we could talk about iron for days. That one is like, you know, I was diagnosed with anemia too. So, I mean, I have plans on, on iron transfusions because they're anemic and then they show me their blood work and they're not even. I'm like, "What!?" but it's, that's another epidemic.

Matthew Blackburn 1:13:14
Yeah, it took me I think, it was like seven or eight years into studying natural health after being raw vegan and vegan and vegetarian and being diagnosed three times with anemia, just at, you know, different conferences and festivals, whatever. And it was such a frustrating realization, because I'm like, "Really? It took me eight years to realize that this was a a joke diagnosis" and-

Ashlee Rowland 1:13:41
Same, seven years. That was new information to me. I was like, blown away, and it makes total sense. But that's a really hard one for people to unlearn that and vitamin D, and fish oil probably are like the hardest ones for people to unlearn. "Hi."

Matthew Blackburn 1:13:58
He's getting ancy. Let's see. This is a really, really common question. "I can't lose weight after pregnancy. What's wrong with my hormones?" and I often get asked, especially, you know, in the metabolic health realm, or pro metabolic or whatever, about losing weight. And I know a lot of people just say like, the calories in calories out, like how, you know, measuring it with chronometer or whatever, and then how much you're expending. And if you, you know, consume less calories than you're expending, then you will lose weight has to work that way. Like do you agree with that philosophy? Or?

Ashlee Rowland 1:14:38
Nooo, no I don't. I've had clients eating 1000 calories a day, expending 2000 calories a day, gaining weight. When you put your body under that kind of stress, it's going to start holding on to toxins like crazy because it's, you know, it's not going to put toxins into circulation to be detoxified from the body, and instead, it's going to start sequestering them into your fatty tissues and so that's when you're going to start seeing weight gain. And that's when it's not going to matter how many hours you spend in the gym, or how much food you cut out, you're going to keep gaining weight because your body doesn't feel safe. And then any form of toxin that comes in is going to be sequestered away, whether that's in the form of eating too much nut butter, or whether that's in the form of like, bleach products you use. So normally, you know, if, if you've, number one, we have to get out of the stupid, get your body back mindset. I literally. Hate that. Like, you're not going to quote unquote, get your body back. I don't know, even know what that means, like you just created a life. Does that mean you have to be obese and, you know, like unhealthy? No, not at all. But like, my hips are changed forever, and they're never going back, I had a baby come out of me and that's just the way it is. And so first off, just we have to get that out of our minds. And a lot of times when people get over that barrier, they realize like, "Oh, I just had like a weird expectation of myself that really didn't have any justification behind it." It was just like, it's the same way when women will step on a scale and be like, "Oh my gosh, it's so bad" and I'm like, "What's bad?" like, and I get it because I was the same way I'd get on the scale and I'm like "140??" and then people are like "What? and I'm like, "I don't know, I just thought that was like a bad number." But more of like a, you know, chemical or mineral standpoint of that is when you are pregnant, and you have birth. Give birth, like baby's getting all your minerals. So unless you were actively remineralizing your body during pregnancy and then postpartum, you're in a depleted state. All your copper went to baby so unless you've replenished it, you're low and copper. Same with retinol. You have magnesium like this is something I experienced after giving birth to my son. Wonderful pregnancy, wonderful birth. But then for two weeks after I couldn't get out of my bed because all my copper, I had just kind of started the RCP like I said. So I didn't have that long to remineralize and replenish my body. So what I had went to this healthy baby boy and I was left with nothing. And so I, it took me two weeks to get my body back up to enough of a mineral standpoint to be able to stand up without getting lightheaded and that was like from supplementing different herbs that were high in copper. And you know, making sure to eat really good balanced meals and, and different things like that. But if you aren't balanced in your minerals, and your body's stuck in that sympathetic dominance, weight gain is going to stay around until it feels safe to let it go. Because when we lose weight, we're getting rid of fat and all the toxins were stored in the fat. So like I said, "If it's not able to detoxify it properly, it's just going to keep it in the body." and same with iron. And that's why when people will switch to this more nourishing lifestyle. They'll sometimes feel kind of cruddy, when all the PUFAs has began to come out of the fatty tissues and the estrogen and the iron. So it kind of creates like that blue kind of feeling, if that makes sense.

Matthew Blackburn 1:18:21
Sounds great. Yeah, yeah and estrogens, like a weight storage hormone, right? And so that I know, that increases that people do that. Calories in calories out kind of philosophy, because their estrogen will go up.

Ashlee Rowland 1:18:36
Yeah, and like, and you just had a baby, but your hormones. I mean, it's like a natural thing, obviously. But your hormones are going through a lot. And I'm not I'm not trying to say that you can't have healthy pregnancies or healthy births or anything like that, because I'm a huge advocate for people believing that they can go against the status quo, like people are told, "You cant expect just because you're healthy, that you're going to have a good pregnancy." I'm like, "Yeah, you can." and if you, and I always tell my husband, a lot of times women are guilted into believing that they can't even vocalize like, "You know, I'm confident that I'm going to have a healthy birth or have a healthy baby." And then I tell people like, "Well, if you're not living a standard American lifestyle, why would you expect to have a standard American pregnancy or birth. You won't." And so I really like to be vocal about like, if you nourish your body, and you give it what it needs, and you're really, you know, like really nourishing, you're going to be well, your body's going to function the way it's supposed to doesn't mean things can't happen. But you can expect wellness and you can expect things to to normalize and regulate in and I love to be a testament of that. Like I'm the healthiest I've ever been in my life and I just you know, I had my baby not that long ago, and my husband's like, "Wow, you look the best you ever have" I feel the best I ever have. Like, I've, I did some stuff with the root cause clinic just for fun, like frequency scans and stuff and she was like, "Oh my gosh, like, I've never seen someone not like need anything." "Do you have any issues, really?" I'm like, "No, I really don't." And that's the first time in my life. I could say that and it's amazing.

Matthew Blackburn 1:20:21
That's really cool. Yeah, I think it's exciting that moms like you are finally creating healthy babies and children. Because most of us, most of the people in the world didn't have a good start. Like, our mom, her mom going back. Like, there were deficiencies and that manifests in poor brain development and all sorts of things, right? Like, I think that's, that's what keeps me so interested in natural health. It's like, the world's messed up because we're, humans aren't functional, right? So we can't think our way or feel our way to solutions. And-

Ashlee Rowland 1:21:05
And you can start like, it can start with anyone, which is like, so cool. Like my mom, I love her death. She ate a footlong every single day that she was pregnant with me and she gave me, what was in that picture? A Twizzler. I was like, one week old, and she gave me a twizzler. I'm like, thanks, Mom. Like, I grew up drinking Kool Aid and so many dried foods, and like, it can start with anyone and it's never too late. Like people will say, "Oh, it's too late. I've already done this for this long." And I'm like, "No, your body is amazing and you can start whenever."

Matthew Blackburn 1:21:39
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, my IQ probably doubled in like the last 10 years. Just making some changes, and finally getting copper and magnesium in.

Ashlee Rowland 1:21:51
Ah, like going against the status quo like, "Oh, you're reaching your 30s or 40s like, now your health is gonna deteriorate." And you're like, "I don't think so."

Matthew Blackburn 1:22:03
This is a good one, copper to aid period symptoms, cramps and heavy bleeding. Any thoughts on that?

Ashlee Rowland 1:22:12
Yeah, so again, is that if you're having period problems, he's playing the drums with our forks and knives. Grapefruit, fresh squeezed grapefruit juice. So if you're having any kind of like, missed period, skipped period, heavy periods, really dark blood cramping, you're looking at an iron issue. And this is really hard in the period community because most of these women are diagnosed with anemia. If you have a heavy flow, you're anemic. And Laura Bryden actually just posted or Laura Brighton, I don't know. She just posted about how, if you have heavy menstrual cycle, you should be taking iron every other day. And I just wanted to rip my hair out. So I went in, chilled myself out of it when and commented like, this is a disservice to women, this is not accurate information. If you're having really heavy periods, your body is trying to get rid of excess iron. If you're having clots of blood, your body is trying to get rid of iron and then Paris came in, helped me out. We're like messaging all these people. But they're like, "Well, then what, what does it mean when I take iron and my symptoms get better and all these things?" And these are all band aids. But so yes, to the question of copper for this, absolutely. If you have, if you're having these symptoms, you don't have enough copper. And what that means is you don't have enough bioavailable copper. So you may get blood work and whatever and it will say your copper is fine. But what's it like in relation to your ceruloplasmin? And what is the ratio? And is it loaded onto the surreal plasmin? And do you have retinol in the body to do this? I mean, there isn't a client that I've ever had, that hasn't improved their cycle ever. And that's normally the first thing they experience is, the first three periods will be heavier, darker and but they won't be painful. They won't be you know, like as estrogenic, their boobs won't hurt as bad. And basically, they're passing all of that excess iron out of the body. And then they're like, "I can't believe it. Like, I literally thought that that was my life once a month for the rest of my life." Debilitating pain in bed, couldn't move and I get that that's how I was like, I couldn't go to school when I was on my period because of how painful it was. And so yeah, definitely looking into the copper therapy, you know, looking at foods first. And then Morley does, you know, have his copper supplements that he's done a lot of work on and but it's a very rare case that I will actually recommend those to a client, if they're really, really depleted, or if they're like a really fast oxidizer or something like that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:24:59
Yeah. Yeah, my interview with Jason Hamo was fun cuz he, he made us it but he recommends transdermal and copper sulfate. Like I forget 50 to 70 milligrams a day or something

Ashlee Rowland 1:25:12
Okay, yeah, because Morleys is cool because his it has the beef liver, you know, it has all the food sources in it and then there's like the cream but the hard thing with the creams is, it's really hard to find like carriers that aren't chemicals or some a but it's like, what's the balance? I don't know.

Matthew Blackburn 1:25:32
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was playing with peptides for a little bit last year just to see you know, Russian peptides bio regulators as they're called and it was fun. My friend Victor Misbah had on the show. It's kind of inspired me and I almost injected GHK copper peptide, and I'm so glad I didn't. They're like, "Don't do it! It's gonna sting like crazy, that's more of a transdermal one that you rub on. You don't need to."

Ashlee Rowland 1:26:00
Yeah. Yeah, it really is interesting. I mean, there's the copper research, because what people have to understand is, number one, most research is, I was gonna say your favorite R word, but I wont. Is just ridiculous. I'll use a different R word is ridiculous. And like, this is new. We're in a newly depleted state. Like if people go and look at like, the food regulations and Drug Regulations and different periods of depletion, like it's fairly new. And so it wouldn't make sense. You know, that we're taking the same recommendations as 100 years ago or whatever.

Matthew Blackburn 1:26:45
Mhmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Blew my mind when I learned the RDA for coppers 0.9 milligrams, and we used to get it was like six, six milligrams, something like that. Was the normal intake, like back in the 30s here.

Ashlee Rowland 1:27:04
Wow. Yeah and the in the fact that they would lower that, you know, as we're in a more stress depleted place, it's like the same way that they dropped, like, developmental milestones for kids, even though and it's just like sick. It's sick, what they're doing.

Matthew Blackburn 1:27:19
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely there's definitely an agenda. But you can get lost in studying the agenda. So I think the best thing is just to focus on our health and yeah.

Ashlee Rowland 1:27:28
Yes. Yeah, don't go down the agenda holes.

Matthew Blackburn 1:27:34
This is a good one how to fix, fix nails with vertical and horizontal lines and ridges. I know some people said that's like a B, vitamin deficiency. There's different thoughts on that, but-

Ashlee Rowland 1:27:48
Yeah, there's like, I think there's the B, vitamins school of thought and the Zinc school of thought, so you know, that makes people want to supplement both of those. And so like, B12, is one specifically that is usually what people are talking about this and B12, interestingly enough, is like, completely dependent on copper. So it's like, well, interesting. And then with zinc, it's the same way like, you don't want to be supplementing zinc and displacing all the copper instead getting zinc from foods, you can get plenty. But yeah, so like, I remember, I used to always have like the white, you know, spots in my nails and, and the nails would be kind of brittle and like right now, they have like a little bit of vertical line. But that's been going away as I've been more nourishing. But it's, it's just, it's minerals. And again, it's one of those symptoms that it's like, I highly encourage you that you're not eating to, you're not eating or taking supplements, to like live for your nails. Like if you balance everything else out your nails and your hair and your skin, they're going to be healthy. So that's just another one of those things you can do like you could, how to make my lips bigger, or how to you know, like, there's such weird things and if you just nourish your body as a whole, everything's going to happen, like the way that it should. I mean, what are your thoughts on the, the mineral dysregulation in the nails? Anything specific?

Matthew Blackburn 1:29:13
I've heard the same thing. Yeah, B vitamins and zinc and, I mean, I'd say desiccated oyster or real oysters, if, you know, and maybe, maybe that is a symptom that you know, instead of getting a lab test that shows you, you know, kind of an insight into your, your body. I mean, it can't hurt to do oysters, you know, the capsuled are the real thing.

Ashlee Rowland 1:29:37
Yeah, and so like you're gonna eat, like we're recommending you eat oysters for you know, million other reasons anyways, and it's gonna also help your nails so yeah, oysters are great. And people are always asking, you know what, or "I can't, I cannot eat oysters I will throw up" so they have you know, the desiccated ones that you can do as well.

Matthew Blackburn 1:29:56
Yeah, yeah, I used to back in my heavy quantum health days I was shucking, sometimes two dozen oysters a day, I was eating like a lot. And I found a lot of those little crabs. I forget the name of them, but they're like a translucent little crab. Kind of like the size of your fingernail, in size. It's pretty gross.

Ashlee Rowland 1:30:17
Yeah. And you're like, "Well, I'm gonna eat this anyways."

Matthew Blackburn 1:30:21
Yeah, that's why I'm into cigars. You know, people get on me for smoking. It's like, so natural. antiparasitic it's, it gives me a nice peace of mind.

Ashlee Rowland 1:30:31
Yeah, parasites are rampant.

Matthew Blackburn 1:30:34
Yeah, yeah, no, but I know that's kind of like a side. That's a side effect of having iron overload and stuff, right? I think. So that's one of the-

Ashlee Rowland 1:30:44
Yeah the iron is, yeah, super pro iron or pro parasites is iron. They just feed off of it. And that's why people won't get like the body's like pulling this all all the excess iron is trying to pull it all in sequestered all the way because it's inflammatory and it's pathogenic. And it's just yeah, it's not good in the body again, you know, it's trying to protect us.

Matthew Blackburn 1:31:07
Mhmm. Did you ever do any like crazy parasite cleanses? Because I went down that that path for a while.

Ashlee Rowland 1:31:16
Yep, I did. Yeah. Especially because we did so much overseas trips and stuff, which it's like, probably good to do gentle parasite cleanses and supportive things. But we were doing like where you wouldn't eat and then you would like, yeah, it was horrible. And it was disgusting and it made you feel horrible and yeah. I was like, I want to see something and I never did. So I don't know.

Matthew Blackburn 1:31:40
Over the years, I keep hearing about fasting, and then the bucket of warm milk under your butt and then supposedly it crawls out and you could do it on your mouth. But just more uncomfortable, because it's gonna come up your throat. I don't know, I've heard. Yeah, someday. I don't know if I want to try it. Well, I probably -

Ashlee Rowland 1:31:58
Yeah there's pretty crazy stories with that. But yeah, I'm like, you know, maybe maybe a different time.

Matthew Blackburn 1:32:05
I think ozone is a pretty gentle way about it, like rectal ozone is pretty effective for intestinal parasites.

Ashlee Rowland 1:32:15
Yeah, and it's really interesting. So a really common thing I see with my clients is like spleen parasitic activity, going off with like, a few numbers, specifically their ferritin. And people be like, "Yeah, I have this, this this". and sure enough, they'll have like some kind of parasitic activity in the spleen and I'm trying to figure out exactly what that means. But that's like a, it's a common thing with my clients. So I'm assuming has to do with iron.

Matthew Blackburn 1:32:43
Yeah, yeah. I'd imagine like an energy deficiency in that area. Maybe it caused by like, calcification or-

Ashlee Rowland 1:32:52
Yeah some kind of stagnation. Yeah.

Matthew Blackburn 1:32:56
Interesting. Yeah. Maybe hit it with PEMF or something? I don't know.

Ashlee Rowland 1:33:01
Yeah, I love PEMF.

Matthew Blackburn 1:33:04
Yeah, it's powerful. This is a good one and I'm sure you get this question a lot. I know I do. Detoxing while breastfeeding. That's a good idea?

Ashlee Rowland 1:33:18
No, I mean, detoxing is hardly a good idea for anyone in the way that they do it. I'm just kidding. Detoxing is great but when you do it in ways, like you're saying, like sauna and sweating, and just eating carbohydrates to support your liver, so it can detox on its own. Like, what an idea. But definitely, when you're nursing, like, you should not be doing like any kind of parasite cleanses or heavy metal detoxes or anything or when you're pregnant. And so yeah, I mean, that's the short answer and, and trying to force your body to detox something when it's in like an energy depleted state is a complete waste of time. Just as a disclaimer, for anyone wanting to do like a liver, or detox or sugar detox or whatever, like it's not going to work because detoxing is extremely energy dependent. And if your body doesn't even have enough energy to like, run your adrenals properly, it's not gonna try to detox your liver.

Matthew Blackburn 1:34:21
It's a really great point. Yeah, I think it's funny. I know, especially from where I came from. It was like, less is more in like, take things out. And there wasn't any emphasis in the detox community I was in, on nourishing the body, specifically with fat soluble vitamins, which play a huge role and like you said, the detox pathways and just allowing enzymes to work like one of my favorite quotes from Morley is, "We need more electricians. We don't need more plumbers." So looking at the body is electrical. Instead of you know, we need to clean the pipes.

Ashlee Rowland 1:35:01
Yeah. And he also says talks about like supporting, supporting the host not killing the guest. Like if all your energy is put on the parasite, like, people, people are just so fixated on this and have a hard time just like focusing on just nourishing the body and letting it do what God designed it to do. Like, it will work right if you give it what it needs. But that's so hard for people to believe. And it's because a lot of people think that they're broken. That's like, the reoccurring choir song for my clients. They all think they're broken, they don't think they can heal when they get pregnant, or when they get their period. They're like an utter shock. So yeah, it's just like, how do we, you know, help people to understand that, that you're not broken. You literally can rebound like, these stories of people, of us, if we can come back from where we were like, you can come back from where you were, but you have to focus on the right things like we're talking about with pathways being blocked from fluoride and being calcified. And if pathways are shut down, and you're trying to force them to do things, whether it's from a medication or a detox, like it's just not going to go well for you.

Matthew Blackburn 1:36:16
Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. This is from our friend Paris, "How long into her healing was she able to tolerate eating gluten? So is it eight years... or?"

Ashlee Rowland 1:36:30
Yes, so well. So yeah, I went completely gluten free when I was 18 and I am 26. And I just introduced it back in and it's so people ask me as often like, "Do you only eat like sourdough?" and my answer is yes. Because that's just, I mean, I don't know anything else now. I haven't had gluten for almost 10 years. But luckily for me, I never did like the gluten free like gluten free breads, gluten free crackers, gluten free this, I just went gluten free. So for me that meant like, I didn't do alternatives for noodles, or breads, or whatever. So that spared my gut a ton. But yes, so eight years, I reintroduce, so I do long ferment sourdough, and this is what is killing me, according to the reddit people. So they're like, "Well, are you getting regular, like scopes done to make sure that your villi are still in there and all this stuff?" And I'm like, "No, I'm not because I'm very in tune with my body and nothing's off." "Well, you could be asymptomatic." Usually, when people are asymptomatic, they're not actually asymptomatic. There are symptoms, they just don't really know how to listen to their bodies. I've done blood work again, all the, all the high levels are gone. All the IGA antibodies are gone. There is no more like Zonulin any of it. It's it's not there. But people have a really hard time believing that, but it's here. Like I eat sourdough every single day now, I make it myself, I find long ferment. Sourdough places like here in Phoenix. And what's really cool, and I told my husband like if we would have gotten pregnant four years ago when I was really sick. Like my baby boy might have like all these intolerance to things, he can eat whatever he wants, he drinks raw milk, he eats oysters, he eats shrimp, he eats eggs. He mostly eats breast milk still, but he like tastes those things. He eats sourdough with us and he, he like his skin is so soft. He's so healthy. So I just yeah, like you can heal what even if it's a genetic thing, like you can heal, I cannot with it. People just get really... on my nerves.

Matthew Blackburn 1:38:53
But yeah, it's going back to the foundational like, like mineral balance and stuff. Even with the like glyphosate. There's just so much fear and I think part of the confusion is just the extreme, like misinformation and information overload pushed by people like Dan Amen. Mark Hyman Asprey, just, you know, yeah, big names, like just that are pumping out these videos that are just confusing people, because then they send it to us and say, "What do you think about this?" And, you know.

Ashlee Rowland 1:39:22
Well, well, it's a part true, but you've missed this part and this and, and like, you build your mineral foundation up and like, I, people, someone just asked me ask or they said, the reason people have a heart or don't want to believe it is because it means they they have to put in work to heal. When instead if they're diagnosed celiac, "Oh, I just won't eat gluten." And if that's fine with you, then that's fine with you. It wasn't fine with me. It didn't. What, did I like want bread so bad? No. For me, it was more of like, I feel like I feel like my body could heal like this doesn't really make sense to me and I, I healed the Hashimotos. You know I'm supposed to be on medication for life. Like that doesn't make any sense and I held the rheumatoid arthritis decalcified a bunch of bunch of bone spurs, like doesn't make any sense. I got pregnant after I was told I would be infertile. And so I'm like, "Hmm, maybe this is like a weird narrative that we're all just being told." and so I don't, I'm like, "I don't care if you think that I didn't heal or not, and it's whatever. But like, if you're ready to hear that message, like, I think that anything's possible."

Matthew Blackburn 1:40:29
Do you think like gluten digesting enzymes can be helpful while someone's healing is like, yeah, like a quick help kind of tip?

Ashlee Rowland 1:40:40
For sure, well, so it's like the same way with dairy. Like if you haven't had dairy or meat in so many years, and then you just add it back in, which is what a lot of people do. They're like, "I can't tolerate it." I'm like, "You don't have any more lactase in your body, because you haven't had dairy for 10 years. So you know, starting with small amounts, reintroducing it slowly, not doing what you see me and Matt doing. We, we didn't start where we are right now. We started where we were a long time ago." And so like adding the enzymes, I think enzymes are so underplayed, whether it's for meat, or whether like gallbladder or pancreas, or whatever, they're so helpful, and just kind of kickstart, you know, kickstart the body and helping the process. And any help you can get when your digestive system is kind of healing is super great. Like I used to take, I don't really know how great they are anymore but I took the Enzymedica, enzymes all the time when I was first kind of starting to heal my gut, and like bitters and digestive juices and different things like that and they're really helpful. So yeah,

Matthew Blackburn 1:41:46
Yeah, I think it helped to, that's before I started selling digestive enzymes, maybe like, seven, eight years before I came out with the Digest-it-all. In my parents house, I was taking handfuls like literally a handful of probably 30, or 40 capsules, and they were the small ones of digestive enzymes. And I feel like I was breaking up stuff that I accumulated over the first, you know, 25 years of my life or whatever. I did feel the effects of that and it was positive. But yeah, I think, to dosing, that's where people get really confused, like with the cod liver oil now they're like, "How much do you take? Because I want to take that much." I'm like, "No, you don't want to take as much as I'm taking because you are you, and I am me, we're different." And like before this interview, I probably took, I don't know, three or four handfuls of bee pollen, like bee bread, which I've been loving again, because I took years off and-

Ashlee Rowland 1:42:39
I could not do. Like, that's one of the things like my body still is super sensitive to bee pollen. It's like so random, but it's not it's really high in copper and it's really high in B vitamins. And so, you know, I was told start slow, you know, take a granule whatever I'm like, "No, I'm taking a tablespoon" I got so nauseous. I mean, like, my body probably had no copper in it and then I just take all this bee pollen, and now I'm up to where I can take like a tablespoon or two. But if I do any more than that, like I immediately have a histamine response. So I just take that histaminum, and gotten better like as I've improved.

Matthew Blackburn 1:43:15
I must be doing better than I thought I thought it was messed up.

Ashlee Rowland 1:43:20
You're doing good. With Digest-it-all, can you talk a little bit about that? So that's your digestive support and I've read a lot of awesome testimonials on that.

Matthew Blackburn 1:43:31
Yeah, there's like multiple different types of protease in it, so not just one. So that's the protein digesting enzyme. And then lipase digest fats, amylase, digest carbs. And the unique thing with that one is I put in amla, just like I put in the Dissolve-it-all. So that's, you know, you're getting your whole foods C with the enzymes, which I think has a synergy there with the copper. And yeah, it's just something that's helpful for people. I mean, I get I'm sure you get messages every day, like, you know, digestive upset with eating anything. And so just taking one with meals, especially one with big meals, like you know, you don't have to do this every time you go out to eat, but you mentioned vitamin E and I think for people that go out to eat two or three times a week, you know, that's a lot in my opinion. And if they were to take like Shilajit, digestive enzymes, and vitamin E, just those three: Shilajit, enzymes, vitamin E, that mitigates a lot in the food and I think people will notice a difference in their health because yeah, I don't know the quality they're probably not eating farm to table two to three times a week. You know, there's probably some sketchy ingredients in there, you know, Chipotle style or whatever. So and it's fine if you want to let go and you know, not even take any supplements when you got to eat. I really, you know, I think you emphasize that as well as the balance and, you know, letting go every once a while, but you can't let go all the time, because then you'll have problems.

Ashlee Rowland 1:45:10
That's for sure. But I'm not the person to talk, like, when it comes to balance, I'm the person at the restaurant that's like, can you please cook my food and butter? And, you know, like those funny like Portlandia skits, like, where's the chicken from? But because it's to me, it's that important and but it doesn't stress me out. And it, you know, it doesn't like, dictate my life. But yeah, so the digested all the Shilajit and the vitamin E, I think would be great things like keep in your purse or your bag and when you go out, if you're going to go out, just support your body, you know that much more. And then I get a lot of people who they're trying to, like, implement the very foods that are healing and they just can't like, "I can't eat red meat. I can't eat eggs, I can't whatever." and so, you know, adding in those things as well, I think would be helpful.

Matthew Blackburn 1:45:59
Yeah, yeah. It's funny how many people are confused about, like breakfast. I feel like that's the biggest topic. And that's why people have been skipping it. Like, not to throw my dad under the bus. But the last time I visited them. I was just asking, you know, cuz I find out a little more each time I see my family in California. And he's like, "Yeah, I haven't had breakfast in years" Like his first meals at like 11 or noon. I'm like, that's a problem. And, yeah, people, like I think you said in your video. Yeah. People don't wake up with no appetite and you know, "I'm allergic to eggs" or "I can't have bread" you know. So what's the option a smoothie with collagen or a handful of berries? It's like, that's not going to do it. Let's see. So this is kind of on the same track. How to eat pro metabolic if you have an oxalate issue?

Ashlee Rowland 1:47:01
Yeah, I actually just had someone asked me, I wonder if it's the same person. Basically, so she's like, so should I focus on if it's the same person if it's not whatever, but, "Should I focus on healing the oxalate issue, or by implementing these changes, and whatever? Is that going to basically like lend to its healing?" And my answer is, "Yes." You focus on these minerals you focus on in like, I'm assuming her question is kind of like, how do you implement these healing foods that are high in oxalates, if you can't handle oxalates, and so that's where the enzymes come in. That's when you start with small amounts. You know, you don't eat like massive amounts of a high oxalate food. Cut out the oxalates that aren't really helping you like kale. I hate kale so much. Like, my husband's looking at me. I have a deep hate for kale. Okay, and I always have but it's because for years, I would like eat it because I thought I had to and it was so disgusting. But like those things aren't-

Matthew Blackburn 1:47:59
Did you ever do the kale chips? Like did you ever dehydrate it? I was into that.

Ashlee Rowland 1:48:05
Cool idea, like that's so disgusting. Yes, I did that with cashew cheese. Okay.

Matthew Blackburn 1:48:12
Me too, yep.

Ashlee Rowland 1:48:15
Paprika, and they actually, I mean, they weren't, they didn't taste horrible when they were doused in the cashew cheese. My husband always make those for me. But, but yeah, with the oxalates it's, it's like going slow, getting the histamines under control, not adding things too fast, you know, supporting with enzymes, and focusing on minerals. I mean, it's like, I don't know what else to say. That's basically my answer.

Matthew Blackburn 1:48:37
Yeah, I think it's the these carnivore people that are making these reels, you know, BS or not, or whatever holding a potato in a supermarket. And it's like, these are high in oxalates so don't eat them. It's like, they're also high in vitamin C and copper, and carbs and things that turn into central amino acids in your body and like potatoes are a superfood. What are you talking about?

Ashlee Rowland 1:49:01
Yeah, and now like the unlearning that was so hard for me because I was, they were just so demonized to me the potatoes that was like and for so long I couldn't have nightshades. So then like any nightshades or nightshade seasonings or anything like that I couldn't have like cumin or paprika or anything so yeah, potatoes are awesome.

Matthew Blackburn 1:49:23
Yeah, I'm on a little break room because I was hitting them hard you know every night for like a month and I think I might overdid it. But I go in phases with the with the russet potatoes

Ashlee Rowland 1:49:36
Idaho potatoes

Matthew Blackburn 1:49:39
Yeah, I can't wait to grow them here. That's gonna be next level in my my dome. I'm excited to see how those tastes

Ashlee Rowland 1:49:47
Yeah, that will be super cool. Our friends actually build domes, down in southern Arizona like they have a house dome. They have a garden dome. They like build domes homeschool domes, geo something dome-

Matthew Blackburn 1:49:59
Geodesic.

Ashlee Rowland 1:50:00
Whats it called? Yeah that, they have one for their ducks and it's so cool.

Matthew Blackburn 1:50:06
Yeah, they work really well in snowy climates especially. I'm, I'm really curious to see which fruits do well, like I think sub tropical fruit, I can grow up here in North Idaho, like stone fruits and it'd be cool to grow some nuts because I've been getting back into those, just small amounts.

Ashlee Rowland 1:50:26
Yeah, yeah, like there's nothing better than like seasonal fresh pecans like straight off the tree.

Matthew Blackburn 1:50:34
That's cool. I've never tried that. Whats, kind of a random question here, we'll just do a few more. What's your opinion on matcha? Matcha tea.

Ashlee Rowland 1:50:49
I mean, if you like it, I think it's fine. I feel like a lot of people drink it because they have to, people a lot of people drink it because like the L-theanine in it, but then a lot of people don't drink it because caffeine, they think caffeine is bad. I mean, I think it's fine. It's really high in antioxidants. It depends on what milk you're putting it in. If you're putting it in nut milk, then no. But, like I was at my friend, Janny's and she made me a matcha eggnog drink. It was delicious. So that was in like, yummy, you know, organic, real milk eggnog with matcha. And yeah, I think what do you do you like matcha? Is there something about matcha I don't know.

Matthew Blackburn 1:51:36
I've tried the powder. I think Adam has made several posts saying it's high and fluoride naturally. So we probably don't need more that, I don't know if it's probably, it's different effects. But yeah, I just didn't really like it, I prefer coffee and I want to ask you with caffeine and coffee. Like do you think it's important to take breaks because I just recently took like a week off and I got actually hammered for it by the metabolic community, it was hilarious. Like, you can't store glycogen properly and I was like being judged for taking a week off. It was really funny.

Ashlee Rowland 1:51:39
I don't drink coffee at all. So come at me. I don't like coffee. I never had coffee. So I think I think it's great to take breaks from things like that. From it like you said, you're taking a break from potatoes, take a break for coffee. Like if you're unable to like you know actually utilize your glycogen storeage properly without coffee, then something's wrong. I use my glycogen just fine and like I said, I don't drink coffee. I think that I used to be really anti coffee because I thought it was just a stimulant. You know, it was it was pulling minerals this this and then you know, I don't, I don't agree with that anymore. Most of the research I was doing was basically on coffee like what it has to do with fasted, you know, in the morning and so obviously it was making people really, you know, stimulated and whatever it's just cherry picked data but yeah, I think it's great and especially like if you if you notice your body isn't doing well when you drink coffee. Like you should probably wait. You should probably like let off the gas pedal a little bit because it's like, what did I say, it's like adding rocket fuel before you even have any gas in the tank.

Matthew Blackburn 1:53:28
Yeah, yeah, I don't remember the exact day I started cod liver oil I'll have to look but I want to say is like two to three weeks ago and that made a huge difference just increasing my retinol intake, in my nervous system and I noticed just my nervous system is a lot more grounded even with with coffee still here so yeah, and I think there's a big difference between like home roasting, fresh roasted, doing it right after you eat you know finding your dose not doing it all day you know there's there's so many variables.

Ashlee Rowland 1:54:01
Yeah. Yeah, quality timing. Quantity. Those are really important. Like I'll have a I had a client and she was just having coffee all day. She's like "I just slept on it all day" and I was like "You know we probably you know should just cut back on that cut back to the you know after your breakfast" and for her it was more of like a sipping like a habit kind of thing so it's that's normally what it is for people, it wasn't about even this like stimulant side of it. Yeah, just Yeah, exactly. So I was like alright, let's swap it for you know, different things chaga tea, bone broth, raw milk. I don't know. Anything else.

Matthew Blackburn 1:54:40
Yeah, that's funny. Let's see, maybe this will be the last one, holistic birth control alternatives. I know a lot of women have had on the show to say like fertility awareness method and being like women are only fertile for how many days in the month is it like five days or three or four or five days,

Ashlee Rowland 1:55:01
They'll say like, five, four to seven. Or, you know, there's different things that people say it depends on who you ask. But yeah, people think that you can get pregnant like any time, which isn't true. And, you know, that's what I'm gonna say is I'm not an advocate for any kind of hormonal or not hormonal contraceptive, like an IUD. Like, I'm not an advocate for any of that. Like, either do the family planning what and if you do that correctly, it's very accurate. It can be hard to do if your cycles are irregular and whatever. So, you know, just being smart, and tracking your periods, tracking your temps, all of those things can help you to track your cycle better. So you know, when you're ovulating, you can get ovulation test strips, so you know exactly when you're ovulating. You may even find out that you're not ovulating, and then you can work, you know, on supporting your hormones better that way. But yeah, that's there's people always want something more and that's what it is. It's like, you can't interfere with what happens when you have sex and not like pay the consequences of it.

Matthew Blackburn 1:56:11
Yeah, I have you looked at statistics recently, like, I don't know. I don't follow like Planned Parenthood or whatever but because it seems like a lot of women that I've had on the show said they were infertile, and they couldn't have, they couldn't conceive and have a baby with their partner. And then after implementing the things that we've been talking about, they were able to so I wonder, what I'm getting at is how prevalent infertility is nowadays, like not saying we don't need birth control, but like, like is, chances are probably a lot smaller than it was five or 10 years ago.

Ashlee Rowland 1:56:45
Yeah. Basically, like, you know, they've added it to the water, they've added it to the food. It's in tap water, birth control, that's flush on the toilet. So I mean, they're basically dosing everyone up. No, no need to take it, just drink tap water. I'm just kidding. Yeah, it's not funny, I don't know why I'm making a joke about it. Probably because it happened to me. But, I was on Kori and Fallon's podcast, actually, and I can't remember the statistic but it's it's like, it's horrible. It's really prevalent and I think it's like, I'm not even gonna say the number. But it's it's really high. Like it's really high and it's really concerning. And I would say that nine out of 10 of my clients are dealing with infertility. And, yeah, that's really sad. And that's like real, like, if I had 90 or 100 clients, 90 of them are dealing with infertility of some way, whether it's can't get pregnant, or you know, they keep miscarrying or, you know, whatever, it may be not ovulating. It's really sad.

Matthew Blackburn 1:57:49
Wow. Yeah, we had some some questions about, like progesterone cream and, and supplementing that. And it's, it's a good band aid, right? Or like a bridge?

Ashlee Rowland 1:58:00
Exactly. Yeah. Like I was saying, I had the postmenopausal levels of progesterone, and I never I would pray about it, and I would research it, and I, you know, like, I wanted a baby just as much as you know, any other woman that does and but I never could find peace in putting on a cream or anything. It just never sat well with me and I'm glad I never did. It's just a bandaid. And again, like, why aren't you? Why aren't you creating enough progesterone is the question, and I'm not devaluing anyone who did use that, because there's people who use it, and it's the spark they needed, you know, to get pregnant, and then kind of once you get pregnant, now you have progesterone and you can kind of create that cycle over again, but I don't think it's the answer.

Matthew Blackburn 1:58:46
Let's see. We'll end with this cliche ending podcast question, what's your number one piece of advice for people.

Ashlee Rowland 1:58:54
Hmm, my number one piece of advice would be to take intentional time to unfollow any chaos or noise that is like bringing you more stress than healing, whether that's in your email inbox, or going on following on Instagram. You know, removing yourself from groups that are toxic, things that you can have that you have control over. So just like quieting the noise of the world, the wellness world so you can actually take in information in a parasympathetic state.

Matthew Blackburn 1:59:34
I love that, that's really simple and free and practical and I love a lot of your messages is that like, really practical stuff. So this was awesome. Ashlee, really, really appreciate you coming on the show.

Ashlee Rowland 1:59:48
Yeah, thanks, Matt. I'm stoked about it. I've been harassing you. So thank you.

Matthew Blackburn 1:59:54
It was overdue and and I'll put your website below, It's just simple without the E holistic.org. (simplholistic.org) And what do you offer for people if they want to work with you? You have courses?

Ashlee Rowland 2:00:07
Yeah, so I, first I send people to my course, bare naked hormones. And I do one on one work, but it's limited. I have a wait list of over 200 women and I'm one human being so I'm trying to build a team, or some kind of process to help more women. But yeah, my course, bare naked hormones is everything we talked about here. I have other content, free content all over the blog, all over Instagram. And then my email, you know, list, we send lots of great information. So whatever way people want to connect. I love it. Awesome, Ashlee well, Yeah, thanks so much again, and stick around as we close out the show.

Matthew Blackburn 2:00:57
Histaminum. That sounds like a Harry Potter spell. I was not aware of that homeopathic medicine and I loved Ashlee's perspective on histamine issues. That's really big right now, that's a question that I get every single day is how do I deal with allergies and elevated histamine. And like Ashley said, "It comes back to retinol and copper." and it makes sense that those would be low because of how much of a problem, iron overload is in the tissues, not in the blood, where they measure it. And I think with this iron overload epidemic, women get hit pretty hard, because they're told, they're programmed to believe that just because they bleed, they don't have to worry about having excess iron and that's so far from the truth and the reality of the situation. Menstrual blood loss is not enough to rebalance from an excess of, for example, iron filings in the fortified grains that a lot of us were raised, eating. So if you're a woman that's confused about hormones, and you have some type of an issue, whether it's PCOS, or high estrogen slash, quote, estrogen dominance, or painful periods, I would definitely check out Ashlee's website. It's simple holistic without the E. So simplholistic.org. I'll put the link below. She can work with you one on one and she also has ebooks and courses that you could purchase, if you're a DI wire. And so you can study by yourself and figure it out if you're inclined to go that route. But it's amazing the programming that both men and women have learned about the body and health in general and how it's so backwards from what we've been told. I've heard from multiple women that have been hanging around vegans, especially raw vegans, that they're actually telling women that it's natural to lose their period. Really insane information that's being spread at a lot of extremes. So I think it's really helpful to have women like Ashlee out there that are simplifying it, and teaching women how to lay the foundation groundwork for their health and then if they want to get more advanced, they can check out my CLF protocol, and start to work on deeper layers of real detoxification and not the shallow green juice, celery juice that we've been taught. Ashlee's also on Instagram, and she has a lot of great free content on there. So I'll put all the links below where you can check out her work. And if you want to support the show, and my working go to matt-blackburn.com. I have recipes up there, all of my recommended products. I get asked every day about magnesium bicarbonate because they have really old YouTube videos about it and how to make it and there's a lot of details that go into it and people kind of complicate it. But I think to make it really simple check out the crucial four mag bicarb that's on the front page of my website and it's just a little $12 pouch of magnesium hydroxide powder. And I believe it's a higher quality than bulk supplements which I was talking about for several years, which is really affordable and will last forever. But a lot of people have said that the taste is different from this crucial four source. So you can experiment around and try different sources, but I think crucial four figured it out and you just add a scoop of this powder to cold carbonated water and you can make your own magnesium supplement for a fraction of the cost of buying it. And if you want to get to the next level, which I recommend is taking shots of magnesium bicarbonate in between meals, and then at least once a day, maybe twice a day, taking my mag ETP product from MITO LIFE. And you could find that at mitolife.co. And we're kind of doing a close out on it right now and the next batch will be a lot more affordable, it'll just be two forms. What makes magnesium expensive is when it's a patented form, which is L three and eight, which is okay. But the marketing on that product is overkill. They say that it's the only form that crosses the blood brain barrier, which is factually false, incorrect. All of them pass the blood brain barrier, all of them get into the mitochondria, it's not just special forms. The only forms you want to avoid with magnesium are oxide, carbonate and citrate but especially the citrate form if there's just one because of citrates effects on ceruloplasmin has negative effects on active copper. But I really like magnesium bisglycinate, and magnesium taurate, I think those are really powerful amino acid bound forms, and a lot of people feel great taking it. So back to my point with the magnesium bicarbonate, you combine that with the capsules and then the third thing ideally would be magnesium baths. And on my Matt Blackburn site, I have the magnesium flakes that I've been using for years and use quite a bit, not just one cup, you would use a third of the bag or half the bag, minimum, ideally, the whole bag, and make sure that you stay in the bath long enough to make it worth it. And if you combine all three of those magnesium sources, I think that's a great way to actually start to build your RBC, red blood cell magnesium. So that's it. Thank you so much for listening, check out the Mito Life Academy. Besides the podcast, I put a lot of energy into that, that's four videos a month that you subscribe to whether it's basic, intermediate, or advanced $10, $15, or $25 a month, which I think is very affordable for the information that I share there. And I just posted the live Q&A for March, which is usually the last day of the month that I go live. This one ended up being three hours. That was the longest live. I've done yet for the YouTube membership. And it's a lot of fun. I share my latest research, lately it's been about iron, retinol and copper. Just donated blood for the first time in, can't even remember and have been having just profound effects from dumping iron via blood donation. If you want to get details there, I just put up two videos on that and talked about it in the Q&A a bit. And I'm overdue for a solo show here on the podcast. I should do those more often because I have a lot of new information to share and if you don't follow me closely on social media, you might have missed the whole cod liver oil thing. So I will release a solo show here soon and thanks so much for your continued support and stay supercharged.